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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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BigMike
Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Posts: 5 Location: Downingtown, PA
Drinking: Sierra Madre Pale Ale, Pliny Clone
Working on: Waldo Lake Amber
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Link Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:13 am Post subject: 14 gauge Neutral connection to 50amp power-in connector |
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Apologies if I missed it somewhere, or if I'm reading the diagram incorrectly...
But the 14 gauge Neutral wire does not make solid connection with the 50amp California Style connector included in the control panel kit. After tightening, the wire pulls right out.
I had a blue 14g spade crimp-connector in my toolbox, and that seems to make good purchase in the connection, but I'm curious about using the 14g neutral wire connection from the bus to the 50amp connector, which was designed for 6 gauge wire connections and won't hold the 14g alone.
Diagram:
Connector with W closed as far as it will go, still too large of a gap for stripped 14g wire:
Has anyone else tackled this issue in a different/better way?
Thanks,
Mike
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: 14 gauge Neutral connection to 50amp power-in connector |
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BigMike wrote: | But the 14 gauge Neutral wire does not make solid connection with the 50amp California Style connector included in the control panel kit. After tightening, the wire pulls right out. |
Hi Mike - I've asked the manufacturer to chime in on this. They've built hundreds of these so there definitely has to be a way. I don't have one of these receptacles in front of me, but usually when you tighten down any of these sorts of receptacles the wire is pinched between two blades of of brass - you can see one of them in the picture on the white hole - the other is down lower? What I'm getting at is are you sure you're putting the wire in the right spot between the plates and not just between one plate and the plastic wall?
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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BigMike
Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Posts: 5 Location: Downingtown, PA
Drinking: Sierra Madre Pale Ale, Pliny Clone
Working on: Waldo Lake Amber
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Link Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: 14 gauge Neutral connection to 50amp power-in connector |
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kal wrote: | I don't have one of these receptacles in front of me, but usually when you tighten down any of these sorts of receptacles the wire is pinched between two blades of of brass - you can see one of them in the picture on the white hole - the other is down lower? What I'm getting at is are you sure you're putting the wire in the right spot between the plates and not just between one plate and the plastic wall?
Kal |
Yep, the set screw tightens a rounded shoe up against the brass blade:
With the cover off:
And, well, I hadn't checked the manual until you mentioned contacting the manufacturer...
Quote: | "The inlet is designed for #10 - #4." |
Looks like 14g won't work here, at least not to mfg spec.
I considered scaling up to 10g wire, but the 10gauge (yellow) spade/fork connector won't work in the bus bar
However, the male connector on the 14g holds well.
Mike
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Thanks Mike - good pictures. Best we wait for Mike of Spike Innovations to chime in on this. They've built hundreds of these and will offer suggestions. Doubling up 2-3 wires (twisted together) that go to the NEUTRAL bus is one option. |
Got this note back from Mike of Spike Innovations:
"I double up the wire in that spot, one goes to the neutral bus and the other jumps over to the pumps. Twisting them together before inserting helps to beef them up as well, strip at least 3/4” to ensure good contact."
That's what I figured. Try that out and let us know how it goes.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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GLRRA47
Joined: 20 Dec 2015 Posts: 43 Location: Ohio
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kal - wiring my 50 A panel and I have a quick question. The 50 A adaptation notes:
"The POWER KEY switch was previously wired directly to the POWER IN RELAY coil (per the POWER INPUT wiring diagram above). This wire must be removed otherwise the interlock feature will be bypassed and the control panel will power up regardless of how the three other switches are set."
*The last page of the adaptation has a picture showing a black 14 GA wire going from the hot #1 Y side of the contactor to the power key switch. Am I to leave it as the picture shows or remove it as noted in the quote above. (It's not coming from the "coil", so I suspect I wire as the picture shows?
Thanks
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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GLRRA47 wrote: | Hi Kal - wiring my 50 A panel and I have a quick question. The 50 A adaptation notes:
"The POWER KEY switch was previously wired directly to the POWER IN RELAY coil (per the POWER INPUT wiring diagram above). This wire must be removed otherwise the interlock feature will be bypassed and the control panel will power up regardless of how the three other switches are set."
*The last page of the adaptation has a picture showing a black 14 GA wire going from the hot #1 Y side of the contactor to the power key switch. Am I to leave it as the picture shows or remove it as noted in the quote above. (It's not coming from the "coil", so I suspect I wire as the picture shows? |
Hi!
Correct. The wires are not the same. Wire as per the instructions/diagrams. These are different wires. So both the text and the diagrams are correct.
In the first paragraph you quoted we're talking about a wire going to the coil of the POWER IN RELAY (contactor).
In your second paragraph you're asking about a wire connected to power input side of the the POWER IN RELAY (contactor). That's not the coil. So it's a different wire.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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GLRRA47
Joined: 20 Dec 2015 Posts: 43 Location: Ohio
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Got it. Thanks for the fast reply!
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GLRRA47
Joined: 20 Dec 2015 Posts: 43 Location: Ohio
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:19 am Post subject: |
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However, the 50 A adaptation (on the picture showing how to wire - in the shunt), does show a 14 GA black wire going from the "coil" left side of the power in contactor - to the top of the NO power key switch. That's OK - even though it is connected to the coil? (The safe start wiring picture doesn't show that wire - in fact it shows the wire from the coil going to the interlock relay?)
So, do I follow both pictures and run one 14 GA wire from the coil side of the power in contactor to the top of the power key switch and one to the #3 spot on the interlock relay?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:29 am Post subject: |
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The 50A diagrams in these instructions in this thread are meant to replace those from the 30A standard build.
The safe start is optional in all builds so the wiring in the safe start is contradictory, or a change, to what was done in previous diagrams. This is normal. You can completely skip the safe start if you like and have a functional panel.
Wire per the diagrams, in order, and then if you'd like to include the safe start, some of the previous wiring will be undone/replaced as per the instructions for the safe start.
Please note that it is important that you still read the instructions for our standard 30A control panel build to make sure nothing important is missed. Often hints, tips or caveats are given. Do not build only using the wiring diagrams and instructions in this thread. You will most likely miss things.
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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GLRRA47
Joined: 20 Dec 2015 Posts: 43 Location: Ohio
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Yep - I've been reading / following the 30 A instructions, but didn't realize the safe start was an optional set-up that would require removal of some previously installed wire. Make more sense now that I understand that.
Thanks
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Creepy
Joined: 04 Feb 2014 Posts: 127 Location: North Chicago Burbs
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Kal, random quick question for you... approximately how much does the pre-built 50A 30+ gallon panel weight? Looking at articulating TV mounts for it now. Thanks.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Creepy
Joined: 04 Feb 2014 Posts: 127 Location: North Chicago Burbs
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Kal. Apparently I'm just learning to read (should have looked a bit closer).
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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themoose
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 16 Location: 60069
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Link Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Quick question, planning on starting my build soon. My plan is to start a 2 barrel nanobrewery a year or 2 down the road. My question is this: can I make 10-20 gallon batches in the meantime using the blichmann 55 gallon kettles with the extensions? I need to perfect my recipes but don't want to test them 62 gallons at a time. I also don't want to buy 20 gallon kettles and then have to upgrade them in a year unless there is no other choice. Thanks for any insight.
_________________ Chris
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 11116 Location: Ottawa, Canada
Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter
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Link Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Hi Chris,
If you're only interested in smaller batches for now, skip the extensions for now and add them later. You can get the 50A control panel for 30+ gallons and add one heating element per kettle then add the second down the road too, though two off the bat will certainly work and save you some time as you'll heat faster.
How you have the elements installed in the kettles will dictate your smallest batch size. You want to make sure they are are submerged at all times when used.
The only issue you may experience is a bit lower efficiency if making very small amounts of beer in large kettles due to the shallow grain depth which may channel a bit (water/wort not flowing evenly through the grain bed). Scaling beers always has changes that need to be made regardless of setup.
Good luck and welcome to the forum!
Kal
_________________ Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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themoose
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 16 Location: 60069
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Link Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Kal, long time lurker, first time poster.
I saw that Blichmann sells a plug for their kettles so I'm assuming plugging the hole I'll need to punch in the HLT and the Mash/Lauter Tun will be easy once I add the extensions and reconfigure.
I hope to start ordering parts next month so I'm sure I'll come across more questions. Thanks for your response, and for hosting this website. So much information!
_________________ Chris
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