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Kal's basement Brewery/Bar/Home Theatre build 2.0
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whitesoxrob



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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kal wrote:
OkieDokie wrote:
kal, you might have mentioned this in other posts, but it's easier to ask again. How many 5 gallon kegs can you fit into your conditioning frig?


Six.



Quote:
If you could take a picture of the insides, a bit closer up than some of the other photos, I'd like to try to mimic that.




Quote:
Also, could you show a bit how you rigged the CO2 tanks as well.

Not sure I understand. It goes Tank -> regulator -> gas line -> gas QD -> keg
You can splice it any way you like. I spliced it 6 ways.

Quote:
If you could tell us the brand of the Frig and the cubic inches, that would help. Thanks.


This one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UW2524/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000UW2524&linkCode=as2&tag=theelectricbrewery-20

Kal


Hey Kal,

I'm looking at fridges to buy and I found one a little smaller than yours but still a Frigidaire. Do you know if the same number of kegs would fit in a fridge that is 3" less deep? Does your fridge have at least that much clearance to close the door?

Thanks,
Rob
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whitesoxrob wrote:
I'm looking at fridges to buy and I found one a little smaller than yours but still a Frigidaire. Do you know if the same number of kegs would fit in a fridge that is 3" less deep? Does your fridge have at least that much clearance to close the door?

With 6 kegs in (2x3 as shown in the pics) it has about 4" from the front most keg to the bottom door lip that sticks out a bit farther. If you raised the kegs a bit with a false floor you'd get even more space as you'd get above that lip (take a look in the above picture how the bottom inside of the door has an edge). So it should work. The caveat here is that you're probably assuming a fridge 3" less deep on the outside is also 3" less deep on the inside, which isn't always the case. I believe Frigidaire had interior dimensions of my model on their website so you may want to confirm yours - if not available try calling them directly. Good luck!

Kal

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whitesoxrob



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
whitesoxrob wrote:
I'm looking at fridges to buy and I found one a little smaller than yours but still a Frigidaire. Do you know if the same number of kegs would fit in a fridge that is 3" less deep? Does your fridge have at least that much clearance to close the door?

With 6 kegs in (2x3 as shown in the pics) it has about 4" from the front most keg to the bottom door lip that sticks out a bit farther. If you raised the kegs a bit with a false floor you'd get even more space as you'd get above that lip (take a look in the above picture how the bottom inside of the door has an edge). So it should work. The caveat here is that you're probably assuming a fridge 3" less deep on the outside is also 3" less deep on the inside, which isn't always the case. I believe Frigidaire had interior dimensions of my model on their website so you may want to confirm yours - if not available try calling them directly. Good luck!

Kal


Thanks Kal, I was going from the interior dimensions listed on their site. I appreciate the help.

- Rob
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Mdunlop4428



Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 68



PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I did a lot of research into towers and went through 2 or 3 designs before settling on this T-design mostly for the narrow width. There are many sellers/manufacturers of towers. Most use vinyl line inside the towers for the beer, which I don't like. This one has stainless product lines and copper glycol lines. The beer will only ever be in contact with barrier tubing or stainless. No vinyl at all. The shanks are stainless too (most others are brass). The copper glycol lines mean more efficient cooling of the shanks, though all towers seem to use copper.





Kal,
I found an 8 draft tower I like but the product lines are Poly barrier lines. I can save $400 dollars going this route over stainless (which another vendor builds and sells). If the trunk lines are poly barrier what issues might I face not having SS with the jumper lines within the tower?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mdunlop4428 wrote:
Kal,
I found an 8 draft tower I like but the product lines are Poly barrier lines. I can save $400 dollars going this route over stainless (which another vendor builds and sells). If the trunk lines are poly barrier what issues might I face not having SS with the jumper lines within the tower?

None at all. It's normal PVC/vinyl that (I personally) don't like as I find it taints the beer.
I wrote an article on it years ago here: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=60380

It's all vinyl too - I bought a Marvel outdoor kegerator recently:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&field-keywords=marvel%20outdoor%20kegerator&linkCode=ur2&tag=theelectricbrewery-20&url=search-alias%3Dappliances&linkId=OMVHE6FSTEE5MNBY

Love it, but it uses vinyl lines and after a few weeks I swapped them out with barrier tubing (leftover from the basement bar build) to avoid taint in the first couple of oz of a pour that had been sitting in the line overnight. When you pour a whole beer it's somewhat diluted and nobody notices but I didn't like that, so I swapped the lines out. You also don't notice it if the beer hasn't been sitting as the taint hasn't had a chance to soak in. It could very well be that after a while the taint is less. I didn't want to wait and see.... Wink Barrier tubing's slipperier too so there's less gunge built-up over time.

Kal

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Mdunlop4428



Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 68



PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just came across your write up on homebrewtalk.com before reading this post. Good stuff! That has lead to an entirely new topic that I wasn't anticipating or thinking about which is beer hose length.


So, when you brought you trunk line inside of your serving frig did you strip back the insulation and foil barrier and go straight to your ball locks or do you have separate bev lines coming from you kegs which then are spliced into your main product trunk line inside of the keezer?

I love your Metropolis tower and found a company that manufactures a copy of Micromatics Metropolis. Made in Canada so I feel confident about its quality. The only difference is they come with Vinyl or Poly barrier pigtails only. I believe MM has outsourced these to China. Anyways, it's a saving of $400 and they sell the same drip tray and rinsed for $100 less so I'm considering this strongly.
http://wholesalebeerparts.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=70_372&product_id=2502


Do you feel beer line length is a real issue. My keezer to tower distance will only require 5 foot of trunk line. I've found a couple online calculators to determine optimum length. I suspect I will need more than 5 feet and this stuff is stiff so winding it up in a coil and finding space in the keezer may be a challenge. This may also push me into a separate line from the keg then spliced into the trunk to help facilitate this design

As always thank you for your time helping a Noob
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mdunlop4428 wrote:
So, when you brought you trunk line inside of your serving frig did you strip back the insulation and foil barrier and go straight to your ball locks

Yup. The simple solution.

Quote:
Do you feel beer line length is a real issue. My keezer to tower distance will only require 5 foot of trunk line. I've found a couple online calculators to determine optimum length.

About ~10 years ago before I set up my first taps I went through all the calculators and my head exploded. None of it made any sense, or it came up with such weird numbers that it wouldn't work for me. So I just went ahead with what length I needed to get it done and it worked fine.

When I did the basement in the new place (this thread) I simply measured what I needed in terms of length (15' I think) and got the 0.25" ID hose instead of the larger stuff since smaller diameter restricts more and most bars do crazy long lengths. 0.25" ID is fine for about up to 50' according to Micromatic. In my keezer the lines are only about 4' and they're the same hose and again they pour fine. The taps in the basement pour slower, the keezer pours faster.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mdunlop4428



Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 68



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Mdunlop4428 wrote:
So, when you brought you trunk line inside of your serving frig did you strip back the insulation and foil barrier and go straight to your ball locks

Yup. The simple solution.

Quote:
Do you feel beer line length is a real issue. My keezer to tower distance will only require 5 foot of trunk line. I've found a couple online calculators to determine optimum length.

About ~10 years ago before I set up my first taps I went through all the calculators and my head exploded. None of it made any sense, or it came up with such weird numbers that it wouldn't work for me. So I just went ahead with what length I needed to get it done and it worked fine.

When I did the basement in the new place (this thread) I simply measured what I needed in terms of length (15' I think) and got the 1/2" ID hose instead of the larger stuff since smaller diameter restricts more and most bars do crazy long lengths. 1/2" ID is fine for about up to 50'. In my keezer the lines are only about 4' and they're the same hose and again they pour fine. The taps in the basement pour slower, the keezer pours faster.

Kal



Wow! Your trunk product lines are 1/2inch that seems really large
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ack! Oops! Sorry, no - they're 0.25", not 0.5". My mistake! I corrected my previous post.

Kal

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Mdunlop4428



Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 68



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mdunlop4428 wrote:
kal wrote:
Mdunlop4428 wrote:
So, when you brought you trunk line inside of your serving frig did you strip back the insulation and foil barrier and go straight to your ball locks

Yup. The simple solution.

Quote:
Do you feel beer line length is a real issue. My keezer to tower distance will only require 5 foot of trunk line. I've found a couple online calculators to determine optimum length.

About ~10 years ago before I set up my first taps I went through all the calculators and my head exploded. None of it made any sense, or it came up with such weird numbers that it wouldn't work for me. So I just went ahead with what length I needed to get it done and it worked fine.

When I did the basement in the new place (this thread) I simply measured what I needed in terms of length (15' I think) and got the 1/2" ID hose instead of the larger stuff since smaller diameter restricts more and most bars do crazy long lengths. 1/2" ID is fine for about up to 50'. In my keezer the lines are only about 4' and they're the same hose and again they pour fine. The taps in the basement pour slower, the keezer pours faster.

Kal



Wow! Your trunk product lines are 1/2inch that seems really large



I've learned a lot about balancing and resistance over the last few days. And have also found my head spinning a bit with these calculators that are out there. I've discovered there are lots of resources but some are misleading and leave out variables. Plus the Bev lines have different resistance numbers and you don't see a lot of discussion about that on most sites.

I'm considering the same tower you bought. Your Motro T tower has 1/4 to 3/8 barbed fittings for each product line. A salesmen from Divinity beer supplies told me the 1/4 barrier trunk line that you use may not fit properly over the barb because of the inflexibility and rigidity. Did you have any issues with this? I was thinking of a heat gun to warm thing up might help.

The salesmen recommended using a 2 inch vinyl spliced to go from the trunk to the barb fitting on this tower. I really don't want any vinyl in my system.
Thoughts?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mdunlop4428 wrote:
I'm considering the same tower you bought. Your Motro T tower has 1/4 to 3/8 barbed fittings for each product line. A salesmen from Divinity beer supplies told me the 1/4 barrier trunk line that you use may not fit properly over the barb because of the inflexibility and rigidity. Did you have any issues with this? I was thinking of a heat gun to warm thing up might help.

I didn't have any issues at all. Both the tower and the trunk line were from the same place (see here for details: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=290842#290842) and are meant to work together. The tapered barb has a wide enough range to fit on any of the tubing. There are some pictures scattered throughout this thread, including ones here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=295672#295672

Quote:
The salesmen recommended using a 2 inch vinyl spliced to go from the trunk to the barb fitting on this tower. I really don't want any vinyl in my system.

Nor would I. It's fairly common for bars to use a bigger diameter trunk line followed by a few feet of 3/16" vinyl as a "choke" line to restrict. Bars pour day in and day out however and it's not uncommon for them to dump the first half or full pint of the day. For home use with less pours I find the beer sitting in vinyl picks up a plastic taint fairly quickly.

Kal

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KirkMN



Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 3



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, I am planning out my basement build something similar to yours and was thinking about the interior windows you have to your brewery. Did you frame in glass panes? I'm guessing that was custom built for your application and to match the wood on the bar. Also, is it one pane of glass or three?

Thanks
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KirkMN wrote:
Kal, I am planning out my basement build something similar to yours and was thinking about the interior windows you have to your brewery. Did you frame in glass panes? I'm guessing that was custom built for your application and to match the wood on the bar. Also, is it one pane of glass or three?

Hi!

They're 3 sheets of single pane glass that were framed in by the custom woodworking guy that did all the fine woodwork in the basement (bar front, bar cabinets, brewery window, sliding door to the basement stairs, home theater riser trim and step, home theater equipment shelves, movie storage shelves). So yup - all made to match.

These 3 are non-tempered as it wasn't required (less expensive). Depending on your local code and where the windows are installed you may need to use tempered (safety) glass. Good luck!

Kal

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dp Brewing Company



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 658
Location: Midwest

Drinking: Black Sheep NEIPA, Rye Not Today, Kick of the Irish

Working on: RIS Barrel Aged


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,
This may of been already asked and I apologize if it has:

You have now built your second brewery, is there anything you would of done different if you could do it again? Like location of outlets, drains, location of brewery items.

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadowpaige64507 wrote:
You have now built your second brewery, is there anything you would of done different if you could do it again? Like location of outlets, drains, location of brewery items.

Nope! The second time allowed me to design with a clean slate so that's what I did. Been very happy with it. Wouldn't change a thing.

Kal

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beerdweeb



Joined: 21 Jun 2016
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great set up! Kal, sending you a PM with some more particular questions about that pond pump set up.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Responded! Feel free to start a thread if you'd like to expand/get other opinions (no need to keep this private). Cheers!

Kal

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Mdunlop4428



Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 68



PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal,

Did you add a couple Ferm frig's to your room. Can you give us the details. I've been away for a while so maybe you have already discussed but I can't find anything in the search window about your new addition.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mdunlop4428 wrote:
Did you add a couple Ferm frig's to your room. Can you give us the details.

I did! Some pictures here in this recipe: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28729
They're Danby wine fridges (with the shelves removed) that can be set between 38-64F

Other pictures/videos have also been posted on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theelectricbrewery/
For example: https://www.instagram.com/p/_-Yj-goKmO/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Mdunlop4428



Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 68



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Mdunlop4428 wrote:
Did you add a couple Ferm frig's to your room. Can you give us the details.

I did! Some pictures here in this recipe: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28729
They're Danby wine fridges (with the shelves removed) that can be set between 38-64F

Other pictures/videos have also been posted on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theelectricbrewery/
For example: https://www.instagram.com/p/_-Yj-goKmO/?taken-by=theelectricbrewery

Kal


I haven't brewed in a year and was looking for a receipt and saw that picture on your German Pilsner receipt. They look beautiful. I have a ugly white frig that I 'm controlling with my BCS controller. I had run glycol line in the wall for a future jacketed conical but this makes since to me. The bling of the conical is cool but this are practical and very reasonable.
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