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When to use Gelatin

 
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tomm




Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 32



PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: When to use Gelatin Reply with quote


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Kal's documented process AFAIK, is:
a) ferment and dry hop in Primary,
b) rack to 5-gallon carboys, add gelatin, let sit 2-3 days at lower temperature (cold crash),
c) rack to corney's, attach gas at serving temp, and let sit 2 weeks

Trying to eliminate a racking and cold crash step, has anyone tried just adding gelatin to the corney keg?
How about adding the gelatin directly to the Primary and skip the cold crash?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people add gelatin to the keg. It works and results in a lot of sludge in the keg which may get stirred up if you're not careful.

Gelatin directly in the primary may work too but there's a lot of 'stuff' in there for the gelatin to have to clear.

I do often skip the cold crash. Gelatin works fine without it.

YMMV

Kal

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skelley




Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 210
Location: brookfield, wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been struggling with the use of fining agents (to use or not to use). I make a lot of big beers ABV's 8-10 and have an impression that fining agents result in a loss of some flavors and body of beer. Does anyone agree? Also, I am worried that the use of fining agents on dry hopped beers will result in a loss of hop aroma and/flavor. What do people think about this? I have largely been relying on cold crashing in conical fermenters for clearing but that takes more time and I definitely do not produce crystal clear beers. Not that I think that matters much. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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Castermmt




Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Gelatin in almost all my beers and all styles. I do dry hop in the secondary and in the final 3 days I use one cup of gelatin in each 5 gallon carboy, rack to keg without any noticeable difference other then clear beer. I also keg and cold crash for weeks at 34 F. If you dry hop or use gelatin in the keg your asking for clogging problems(been there). My 2 Cents, Castermmt
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use gelatine on all my beers (except wheat beers) as well. I always sample and never noticed any flavour stripping before & after.

Kal

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Castermmt




Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be conflicting practices on how to make the gelatin that is added to a five gallon batch of beer. Here's how I do it with great results:

Buy Knox gelatin packets from the local grocery store.

Boil 1 cup of water with my small whisk in the pot with lid to sanitize for 5 minutes.

Allow the water to cool below 170 F. (anything higher will denature the gelatin).

Add the gelatin to the cup of water in the same pan you used to boil the water in and use the whisk to mix it well then cover.

Let it cool to room temperature, then add to carboy in the secondary.

Let sit for a few days then shake/rock the carboy a little to let the gelatin drop off the walls of the carboy. You can see the stuff on the walls and you want it on the bottom so we can keep it out of our beer.

Let sit for about 2 more days then rack to keg.

I also cold crash all my beer as well and have very clear beer.

Hope this helps, Castermmt[/list]

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g8tors




Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your how to on making and using the gelatin Castermmt. Could you also tell us how long you stay in primary and secondary? When do you dry hop and for how long? Do you cold crash your 5 gal carboy before adding the gelatin? I have been thinking about using gelatin for my Kolsch and light lagers to help clear the beer and to help eliminate some of the yeast flavor. How I have handled my beers so far is to keep them in the primary for 3 weeks and then drop the temperature down to 34 for two days then rack to a keg for carbonation and serving. If I'm dry hopping I usually add them a couple of days before I crash cool so the hops aren't in the beer for more then four days. I always thought that when I used gelatin I would do it in the keg and then jump over to a second keg once it cleared, but I worried about clogging and after reading your comments above I'm more worried about it. Thanks for the info.

Scott


Last edited by g8tors on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Castermmt




Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primary is a function of the yeast and style of the beer. Ales I normally rack to secondary after about 5 to 8 days once I see the activity stop. I then rack to secondary for 7 days, if dry hopping I do it for 3 days(any time during the secondary) and then add the gelatin for 3 more days to finish. I then rack to keg then cold crash.

Lagers I primary 3 weeks then secondary for at least one week, then add the gelatin for 3 days then rack to keg and cold store for 90 days.

The main thing I do is take my time and the beer comes out great. Brew ahead and time is never a problem.

Hope this helps, Castermmt

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g8tors




Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Castermmt. Why seven days in the secondary? So when you dry hop do you place the hops in bags to retrieve them after three days? For dry hopping I have always just thrown them in the fermenter but that means I have to do that towards the end of fermentation if I don't want the beer to sit on the hops for more then 3 - 4 days.

Scott
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Castermmt




Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g8tors wrote:
Thanks Castermmt. Why seven days in the secondary? So when you dry hop do you place the hops in bags to retrieve them after three days? For dry hopping I have always just thrown them in the fermenter but that means I have to do that towards the end of fermentation if I don't want the beer to sit on the hops for more then 3 - 4 days.

Scott


Scott, I allow one day for the secondary to settle, I then dry hop directly into the secondary (no bag) for no more then 6 days, first 3 days are for hops to do their magic , 3 days for the gelatin to work its magic. I know that 3 days is all you need when dry hopping but the extra time has had no ill effects to the beer.

Hope This Helps, Castermmt

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g8tors




Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 211



PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That helps a lot.

Thanks,

Scott
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idingle




Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 25
Location: Alberta


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am ready to move my first batch from primary to secondary for clarification. One problem-I only have 6.5 gal carboys. Am I risking issues due to the surface area on top of the beer? I only have ~5.5gal per primary fermenter so I can't just fill them up.

I brewed a batch of Electric Pale Ale 15 days ago. Dryhopped for the past eight days. OG:1.050 At dryhop 1.009

Should I:
1. Add gelatin to the primary (7gal bucket) since it has a CO2 layer on top and then siphon straight to the keg in 3-4 days?
OR
2. Rack to a 6.5 gallon carboy and do the gelatin addition there and keg in 3-4 days?
OR
3. Keg it and add gelatin to the keg?
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you purge the secondary with CO2 before racking? That is preferred so that you can do (2) so that there's less 'gunk' to have to drop out. Otherwise I'd probably do (1). Though the keg should be purged too with CO2 if you can. Less of an issue when kegging however as you can immediately after kegging hook it up to gas and burp it a few times to purge.

To purge carboys I have a gas hose hooked up to my manifold with a separate shutoff. No QD on the end of it. I just dangle it in the carboy (or keg) and turn on the gas. You know it's full of CO2 when you do the sniff test: You can smell CO2 billowing out the top (CO2 is heavier than air).

Kal

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idingle




Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 25
Location: Alberta


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I have a third manifold off my CO2 supply that I thought might be useful as a utility line so I'll purge the carbons, do option 2. Rest at room temperature for a couple of days, gently swirl, rest a couple of days, purge the kegs and then put them in the kegerator at ~12 psi and 38 deg F for a couple of weeks.

I can't fit the carboys in the kegerator.
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rcrabb22




Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 462
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Some people add gelatin to the keg. It works and results in a lot of sludge in the keg which may get stirred up if you're not careful.

Gelatin directly in the primary may work too but there's a lot of 'stuff' in there for the gelatin to have to clear.

I do often skip the cold crash. Gelatin works fine without it.

YMMV

Kal


I have added unflavored gelatin to the keg. I haven't any ill effects with clogging or such and I did get a bunch of sludge collect in the bottom of the keg.

The worst side effect I encountered was the last beer of the keg was mostly sludge. It is then you realize the last drinkable beer you are going to get from that keg is already gone.
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