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Hey gamers! Opinions on my gaming PC build
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10725
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Got Windows 10 installed along with the latest Nvidia drivers and did some burn-in tests/benchmarking.

Seems the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO cpu cooler is defective. The copper heat pipes in it aren't even warm when I run things like the Intel Stress Test tool:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24075/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-

I'm seeing 70C+ CPU temps. This is all without a case, everything running stock speeds (no overclocking), including the i1 4790K CPU at the stock 4.0Ghz speed.

By comparison the heat pipes in the GTX 970 get almost too hot to touch when running GPU tests and benchmarks like Valley Benchmark ( https://unigine.com/products/benchmarks/valley/ )

Going to try the Intel stock CPU heat sink for comparison, but may have to return the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO cpu cooler. Weird. I thought these things were completely passive, but Googling shows at least few other people with similar issues that were solved by swapping out the cooler.

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10725
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I did some more testing about the 4x core temperatures and under load I'm hitting the "Tj Max" (Tjunction Max) temp of 100C immediately. This is the Core temperature at which the processor will Throttle (reduce clock speed) to protect against thermal damage.

Reminder that this is an Intel i1 4790K with a regular speed of 4000Mhz and a Turbo speed of 4400Mhz. I'm running everything stock. No overclocking or changes of any sort. Ambient temp was ~20C, motherboard's not in a case so lots of airflow.

Tests:

Quote:
Cooler Master 212 EVO CPU fan:

Idle: All 4 cores at ~30C
Under load: All 4 cores hit 95-100C immediately when starting test.
Core clocks ran full tilt at 4400 Mhz (Turbo) so there was no throttling at all.
After 10 mins the heat sink was cool, the heat pipes near the bottom were just very slightly warm.

Stock Intel heatsink/fan:

Idle: All 4 cores at ~30C
Under load: All 4 cores hit 95-100C immediately when starting test.
Core clocks were throttled back to 3700-3900Mhz so it would appear the stock heatsink/fan doesn't work as well as the EVO 212.
After 10 mins the heat sink was warm.


In both cases this is way too hot, no? From what I've read, I don't like that it's going over 80C. If you shouldn't be going over 80C for a stock setup, is it acceptable to return a CPU? Can it be considered "defective"? Maybe there's a gap between the IHS (integrated heat spreader) which is the part the heat sink presses against on the outside of the CPU And the die inside? Which is why many people seem to delid CPUs. Examples:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1309867/short-and-direct-delid-guide-ivy-bridge
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-club-guide

Or maybe it's a mobo issue?

--------- MORE INFO / HOW MY TESTS WERE DONE --------------

Referring to: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

They say that the normal operating range for Core temperature:

80C Hot (100% Load)
75C Warm
70C Warm (Heavy Load)
60C Norm
50C Norm (Medium Load)
40C Norm
30C Cool (Idle)

My specific CPU:

4th Generation 22 nanometer: i7 4790K (TDP 88W / Idle 2W)

Tcase (CPU temp) = 74C
Tjunction (Core temp) = 79C
Tj Max (Throttle temp) = 100C

(So with both fans I'm hitting Tj Max which isn't good at all).

Apps used to measure the temps were Realtemp 3.70, CPUID HWMonitor, CoreTemp 1.0 RC5. All 3 more or less show the same temp values.
To load the CPU cores I ran the "Small FFT" test in Prime95 v28.7 64 bit - a well known tool for this.


Kal

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Tennessee



Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Tennessee


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Install "MSI Command Center" and compare the temp readings too what your seeing. Your defiantly running too hot!
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Fal



Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 69



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. That is too hot. Anything 100F is dangerous to the CPU. GPUs are a little tougher. Either way, the only time I've had a similar problem was when the cooler was mounted poorly/improperly. What kind of thermal paste are you using? Can you remove all parts of the mount and start over with fresh paste? With the coolmaster, I would expect your temperatures to stay below 60F.
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Tennessee



Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Tennessee


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fal wrote:
Yes. That is too hot. Anything 100F is dangerous to the CPU. GPUs are a little tougher. Either way, the only time I've had a similar problem was when the cooler was mounted poorly/improperly. What kind of thermal paste are you using? Can you remove all parts of the mount and start over with fresh paste? With the coolmaster, I would expect your temperatures to stay below 60F.


Are you sure the fan is spinning up ?

Did you install any Samsung sw that could have changed settings ?

You can clean the paste off both surfaces with at least 90% alcohol (I use arctic clean).

You might also want to update to the latest bios for the board. MSI has an easy update utility!

Here's a good video for the reinstallation
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=msi+z97+gaming+5+%2b+Cooler+Master+Hyper+212+Evo+install&view=detail&&qpvt=msi+z97+gaming+5+%2b+Cooler+Master+Hyper+212+Evo+install&mid=91576A25DFD35F6ACD5A91576A25DFD35F6ACD5A&rvsmid=91576A25DFD35F6ACD5A91576A25DFD35F6ACD5A#view=detail&mid=91576A25DFD35F6ACD5A91576A25DFD35F6ACD5A

If after a remount and you see no improvement , then you might want to consider a RMA on the chip. Some batches of this
Chip were prone to overheating.

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Last edited by Tennessee on Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10725
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solve it.

Answer here, straight from Intel: https://communities.intel.com/docs/DOC-23517

Basically I used their XTU tool mentioned in that post and played with what power the CPU's allowed to work with when pushed. My CPU's rated to 88W so that's what I need to make sure it gets (max). Now the temps peak around 70C with this insanely demanding Prime95 app, or in the mid 60C's for anything else when I push the machine hard. 70C or under is perfect. Did some benchmarks and the machine's stil rating the same or even slightly better as it's not thermal throttling.

The values I played with are "Turbo Boost Power Max" (was 512W, I set it to 88W per my CPU's max wattage) and "Turbo Boost Short Power Max" (It was set to 512W, I set to 110W with a max of 16 seconds) and "Processor Current Limit" (was 256A, I set it to 105A)

I don't know exactly how these settings in this Intel XTU tool actually change my BIOS settings temporarily while in Windows (or I think that's how it works) or what values it uses but everything runs well now so I don't care. Looking through the BIOS settings I didn't see anything similar that allowed me to set wattage or amps directly in this MSI Z97 Gaming 5 motherboard.

Incidentally, if you download Prime 95 and run it while Realtemp 3.70 is running to show your core temps, I think most of you will be surprised how HIGH your core temps get. I've tried it on two other machines (including this i7-4700HQ laptop I'm using right now) and the same thing happens: My core temps go up to near 100C almost instantaneously. I would bet that most machines out there would do the same, but people just don't realize it.

Kal

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Tennessee



Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Tennessee


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you figured it out! Not sure why those numbers where defaulted so high!
My numbers are a little higher
Clock 100.00 Mhz
Core Voltage 1.185v
TBSPM 255w
TBPM 255w
TBPTW 16 Sec.
Current Limit 256A
Voltage Offset 0mv
44X multiplier

Prime 95 maxed out all cores to 98/100C

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Kal Clone (30amp),Mash Re-Circulation Manifold, Custom BK Hop Filter.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10725
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tennessee wrote:
Glad you figured it out! Not sure why those numbers where defaulted so high!
My numbers are a little higher
Clock 100.00 Mhz
Core Voltage 1.185v
TBSPM 255w
TBPM 255w
TBPTW 16 Sec.
Current Limit 256A
Voltage Offset 0mv
44X multiplier

Prime 95 maxed out all cores to 98/100C

If I enabled the overclocking features in my motherboard's BIOS the values you list above are the defaults for me as well which also maxes out all cores to near 100C when running Prime 95. Other heavy CPU apps make it hit 85-95C. Both are too high so I lowered the numbers to:

TBSPM 110w
TBPM 88w
TBPTW 8 Sec.
Current Limit 105A

This way the CPU never gets much above 70F.

Without turning on the "overclocking" features in the BIOS I don't see these values directly (they're locked at "AUTO"). So now I don't need to use the Intel XTU tool to change them in Windows. Instead, they're set directly in the BIOS so that no matter what OS I run they're set pseudo-permanently. Much better.

Thanks for all the hints guys!

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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View user's photo album (21 photos)
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