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Filtered beer

 
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kwdriver



Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Eagle, CO

Drinking: Munich Helles, Slippery Neighbor Trippel, Bonfire Scotch Ale

Working on: Maibock, Blackhawk Bock


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:28 am    Post subject: Filtered beer Reply with quote


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Well I decided to use a 5 micron filter on a Munich Helles today. I had previously entered the Helles in a contest and one of the judges said there were some particles in the beer. I ended up doing well and got 1st in my category but I didn't want to potentially leave any more points off the table. Brewed another batch and it tasted and looked great. Well the helles is now cloudy and it really seems to have lost some of its taste. It was my understanding that a 5 micron filter wouldn't strip the beer just grab big particles like gelatin and whatever else settled out.

I'm going to wait and see before I dump the stuff. Frustrating because the kegs tasted pretty darn good before filtering and looked crystal clear. Anyone else run into something like this?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10600
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not myself with any of the lagers (Helles or other) that I've brewed, but then I've never filtered any my beers. With something like a Helles, you need to leave it a good month or two to lager so by then any particles will have settled out even if you don't use gelatine (I usually always do however).

Are you saying that that the batch you filtered went cloudy over time? What sort of schedule/timeframe are we talking for fermentation / filtering / packaging / lagering / etc?

Kal

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kwdriver



Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Eagle, CO

Drinking: Munich Helles, Slippery Neighbor Trippel, Bonfire Scotch Ale

Working on: Maibock, Blackhawk Bock


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Kal it was the strangest thing. The beer was delicious and very clear before filtering.

I believe I brewed the Helles in late July. Fermented at 53 and then raised the temp to 60 for a diaceytl rest once it was within 5 points of terminal gravity. I then racked the beer into a keg and added a cup of distilled water with a Knox gelatin packet. I then hooked the keg up to CO2 and put it in my fermenter until mid Sept. before I even tasted it.

Sunday I filtered the beer and the end result was a cloudy/hazy beer. It also seems to have been stripped of most of the flavor. Everything I had read said a 5 micron filter would only take out particulate.

From here on out I plan on dumping gelatin in my conical for 3-4 days and then push the beer into the kegs.
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kal
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Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it cloudy/hazy before filtering? How'd it taste before filtering?

Kal

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kwdriver



Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Eagle, CO

Drinking: Munich Helles, Slippery Neighbor Trippel, Bonfire Scotch Ale

Working on: Maibock, Blackhawk Bock


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Was it cloudy/hazy before filtering? How'd it taste before filtering?

Kal


The beer was crystal clear and tasted great before filtering.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10600
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have left it as is then. Wink (Sorry, that doesn't really help, does it?) Wink

Maybe it got infected because the filters weren't 100% sanitized or similar? Hard to know. FWIW, I wouldn't bother filtering any beers unless you're in a big hurry to get things out ... In the case of a lager however that needs time, you can't rush things. I find gelatine and a bit of time always gets me crystal clear beer.

Kal

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kwdriver



Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Eagle, CO

Drinking: Munich Helles, Slippery Neighbor Trippel, Bonfire Scotch Ale

Working on: Maibock, Blackhawk Bock


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I would have left it as is then. Wink (Sorry, that doesn't really help, does it?) Wink

Maybe it got infected because the filters weren't 100% sanitized or similar? Hard to know. FWIW, I wouldn't bother filtering any beers unless you're in a big hurry to get things out ... In the case of a lager however that needs time, you can't rush things. I find gelatine and a bit of time always gets me crystal clear beer.

Kal


Hard to know how everything went south. I simply added a step to try to make sure the product I was putting through my beer gun to send to competitions was free of all particles (including gelatin). I don't think the beer could have become infected/changed flavor immediately after going through the filter even if the filters weren't 100% sanitized.

Yeah time and gelatine have served me well in the past. I guess this was just a learning point that cost me a little less than 10gal of tasty beer.

Looking forward to my next brew session.
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I would have left it as is then. Wink (Sorry, that doesn't really help, does it?) Wink

Maybe it got infected because the filters weren't 100% sanitized or similar? Hard to know. FWIW, I wouldn't bother filtering any beers unless you're in a big hurry to get things out ... In the case of a lager however that needs time, you can't rush things. I find gelatine and a bit of time always gets me crystal clear beer.

Kal


+1 for what Kal said about not filtering. I use the gelatin as well and never had a problem with clarity. Lagers I can do with out fining if I plan on letting it lager 60 to 90 days or better.

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kwdriver



Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Eagle, CO

Drinking: Munich Helles, Slippery Neighbor Trippel, Bonfire Scotch Ale

Working on: Maibock, Blackhawk Bock


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
+1 for what Kal said about not filtering. I use the gelatin as well and never had a problem with clarity. Lagers I can do with out fining if I plan on letting it lager 60 to 90 days or better.


Yeah Castermmt I've used gelatine every time with great success. I just chose to pitch it into my corny kegs instead of into my fermentor or brite tank. The only reason why I filtered was to get the trace amounts of particulate out of the kegs. The beer was really clear beforehand and it was hazy afterwards. I don't plan on using my filter again.
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you mentioned, one of the judges mention the issue. You still took 1st. Mug
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kwdriver



Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Eagle, CO

Drinking: Munich Helles, Slippery Neighbor Trippel, Bonfire Scotch Ale

Working on: Maibock, Blackhawk Bock


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Castermmt wrote:
As you mentioned, one of the judges mention the issue. You still took 1st. Mug


Yeah but regretably I've got 4 kegs of sub-par beer. I've got 6 gal of bock doing a diacteyl rest in my 14.5 gal conical so as soon as I get that beer kegged it's going to be time to brew another 12 gal batch. Planned on entering a local contest and one in the lower 48 at the end of the month. Oh well I'll have plenty of beer by Christmas.
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James Edmonton



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 124
Location: Edmonton, AB

Drinking: West Coast Dry Hopped IPA

Working on: Session Ale


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be obvious, but I haven't seen any reference to the temperature you conditioned your beer. I have filtered many beers, usually at 1 micron. Even at this level of filter you can easily get chill haze if you haven't cold conditioned your beer. Chill haze is basically a protein that shows up when you chill your beer, it won't show at the warmer temperatures. It doesn't really effect the taste, but will make it look cloudy. It will eventually settle out if you give it enough time.

You can basically prevent it by using gelatine and then chilling your beer as cold as possible (I go for about 1 degree C) for at least 24-48 hours. Longer is better.

Hope this helps.
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James makes a good point. I use gelatin in my secondary stage for 3 days, then rack to kegs and store at 34F until I'm ready to serve, Usually well over a month or more. I lager for no less then 4 months in the same manner and my beer is very clear. When I dispense it's around 38f.
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kwdriver



Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Eagle, CO

Drinking: Munich Helles, Slippery Neighbor Trippel, Bonfire Scotch Ale

Working on: Maibock, Blackhawk Bock


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James thanks for the response. I cold condition my beers at ~33F. The beers in question were cold conditioned over a couple of months and were crystal clear when serving. One of them has cleared up up (Vienna) and the other is still very cloudy/hazy. I've pretty much given up on them. The vienna seems to have lost some of its body and the helles is pretty much terrible. Never fear, I brewed another batch of helles this past Monday.

This past weekend I pitched gelatine into my conical and then used low pressure to push the beer into cornys. I "filtered" the beer through a sanitized paint strainer just to grab any big particulate. I'll cold condition the beer for a month or so before I give it a taste.
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