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Excessive limescale

 
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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject: Excessive limescale Reply with quote


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Well. It's been 4 months since I relocated, but I finally managed to get settled in the new house and get the brewery built (that I started back in December). I did a dry run this weekend with just tap water. Everything worked like a champ. I did have one concern, though. After dumping the kettles, I noticed limescale on the heating elements. The one in the BK had significantly more than the HLT, which make sense. In one boil, the element in the BK looked like a ball park pretzel. Crazy. This is a new town for me, so I've never brewed on any system here. The water is a mystery. I washed the kettles and elements to remove that crap, but I have no idea how this will affect the taste of the beer. I looked up the water profile for the area. Here it is:

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 31.7
Mg: 6.7
Na: 32.3
Cl: 8.9
SO4: 11.7
CaCO3: 147.2

The electric brewery is a giant leap forward. I was doing the duo coolers and kettle. No pH or salt adjustments. I'm trying to do everything the proper way now. I have no problem adjusting the rest of the ions. Is this even a problem other than having to really scrub the kettles after brewing? I'm trying to avoid buying 10 gallons of distilled water every brew, but I will if needed. Has anyone ever used any descaling agents on this setup? You guys get where I'm going. Any info on this subject will be welcome.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Fal
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it actually lime (I didn't think it could form that fast) or just a soft coating of silt that looks light in colour? I get something similar but a quick wipe of a sponge against the heating element gets it off. I seriously doubt that lime can precipitate out and form a hard deposit in an hour.

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Is it actually lime (I didn't think it could form that fast) or just a soft coating of silt that looks light in colour? I get something similar but a quick wipe of a sponge against the heating element gets it off. I seriously doubt that lime can precipitate out and form a hard deposit in an hour.

Kal
Everything I've read points to limescale. I'm not expert by any means. That's what it looks like, though. It's not a soft coating. It's literally looked like the salt that is on ball park pretzels and it was stuck on there good. I had to scrap and scrub it off. I've also read that it's the heat that cause it to come out of solution (the opposite of what you would expect) due to the CO2 being driven out of the water by heat. The CO2 is in equilibrium with the it. Once the CO2 goes, the limescale will start coming out of solution. I can't remember enough chemistry 101 to guess, but I'm thinking that the lactic acid and lower pH will help keep it from precipitating. I'm pretty sure most descaling agents are just mild acids. I just didn't know how it would change the taste. I guess there is only one way to find out. I'll be making a saison this weekend.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Other than the somewhat high alkalinity (CaCO3), your water mineral content is fairly reasonable.

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Interesting. Other than the somewhat high alkalinity (CaCO3), your water mineral content is fairly reasonable.

Kal
Well, based on this equilibrium

Ca2+ + 2HCO3− ⇋ Ca2+ + CO32− + CO2 + H2O

I guess that's why I have the problem with it. My CaCO3 is pretty high. The good news is acids do react with it to make soluble salts. I guess I'll see how they taste.
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Roadie




Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 127
Location: Charleston, SC


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like the water where we live either so invested in a very nice RO unit with a 20 gallon pressurized holding tank. I've never regretted that decision.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's always an option. The water where I'm from is very soft (not much in it) so it's great. If that wasn't the case, I was ready to go with an RO setup.

More info here:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Reverse-osmosis-filtration-system

Kal

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Fal




Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 70



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I did the brew. Brew salts, pH, yeast starter..... the whole nine. My numbers were perfect. It does seem the acidified sparge and mash kept the limescale soluble. The fine "silt" was there after brewing like you said, but it wiped off as you said. No trace of limescale and most of it that I couldn't scrap off (from before) had dissolved in the acidic solution as well.

I guess we'll see how it tastes.
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