"Element on" lights wont turn on.

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

So, Not really sure where to start here, I was hoping someone would have some advice for me.

I powered up my system today to plug in the temp probes to calibrate my pid controllers and everything was moving along smoothly.

However, I noticed that the Element lights for my HLT and BK were not turning on, even though the set temp was about 15 degrees higher than the probe temp.

I also noticed, what i thought was a chlorine smell, but I think it turned out to be burning plastic. And it looks like the neutral wires returning to the neutral bus bar from my pid controllers have some black charring on them (or at least what i believe to be charring). These are the Neutral wires returning to the neutral bus bar for the pid control power.

I have both the hot and the Neutral wired in line, Do you think its possible the pids are producing more electricity than the neutral can handle?

I have three pid controllers, and its only happening on the neutral wire returning from the 1st and 2nd pid controllers in the line. Where I connect each of them together. the third pid controller is at the end of the line, and there is no charring, and it's "element on" light is working. however, when I lower the set temp below the actual temp, the light still stays on.

Not sure where I messed up.

I'll see if I can provide pics later, I know this is probably hard to follow without knowing my set up.

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

Just to make sure, i switched one of the lights that is not working, with the one light that was, and it worked. So i don;t think its the lights.

this seems like a pretty simple connection. Its just two wires running from the Relay.. one red one black... it is possible there would be a short there? or do I have a malfunctioning Relay or SSR?

I could see one, but two out of the three malfunctioning?

Also, the red lights to my SSR's are always on. Is that expected? Or shoudl I be running the SSR + through a switch somewhere?

luke_l · Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Posts: 63 Location: Kingston, ON

Sounds to me like you have something miswired, and have a short somewhere... Or you are using the wrong gauge of wire or something.

What do you mean about "the hot and neutral wired inline"? Can you draw a picture? Do you mean you wired some stuff in series instead of parallel? Because it should be in parallel not in series...

Double check all your wiring from the diagrams. It's pretty easy to make a mistake... just remember that if you are daisy-chaining wires, that the wires on a terminal should all be the same color.

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

I'm also using 14 gauge wire for all the all the components to and from the Bus Bars and 10 gauge wire for all the SSR, Relay and heating elements.

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

Ok, so new updates...

1) I think I have a faulty switch that toggles between by HLT and BK. No matter which one is on, they both draw power. I even removed the hot line that trips the BK, turned it to HLT and the BK outlet was still drawing power. Which is strange though, because the BK relay doesn't trip.

2) The HLT and BK lights still aren't receiving power. Which is odd to me though, because the outlets for the elements are. And the power to the lights are using the same poles on the relay.

Could a faulty switch be to blame here? Or are my relays crap? and should I replace those as well?

One thing I notice, is all three of my SSRs are always on. Should it be that way? the SSRs always on, and then the relay switches on to allow the elements to draw power through them? Or shoudl the PID controller only turn on when I want to use that Element?

luke_l · Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Posts: 63 Location: Kingston, ON

Without being able to take a look and play around, it would be really hard to troubleshoot. You can check the switch by removing the wires and checking for continuity with a multimeter. If the switch is good (which it should be... switches don't tend to fail) then double and triple check the wiring to the relays. They should click on regardless of what the PID's and stuff are doing. You can disconnect the elements, you should hear a definitive click when you turn them on. SSR's will turn on/off based on what the PID's want them to do regardless of whether the switches have that element selected or not.

I'm sure you have double checked your wiring already... but try triple checking it. Maybe get someone else to take a look, sometimes it's hard to notice your own mistakes. I've wired things before and had to check it 4 or 5 times before I found a mistake I made. The strange things you have happening all point to wiring to me.

Another thing... you have a RIMS which I missed before. What is the wattage of your elements? Have you checked that you can run your RIMS tube and one of your other elements at the same time? I'm assuming it's a 30A panel, and right now you would be able to select either HLT or BK and your RIMS tube at the same time which might be too much current for the circuit.

luke_l · Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Posts: 63 Location: Kingston, ON

Sorry, just read your other post where you address the element wattage. Disregard that part Smile

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

luke_l · Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Posts: 63 Location: Kingston, ON

... do you have it hooked up to 120 like in your other thread? If so, you only have one hot, so you want get the element lights... They are 240 and need both phases to work

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

Flaviking · Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 14

It was a wiring issue.. figured it out when I took the wires from the light that was working and hooked it up to the boil kettle relay. The light lit up, so I knew it was a wiring issue. In the process of replacing the terminals, I noticed when I pulled on the BK wire it was going to the HLT Relay... But it was just one of the legs.. so the other one i checked looked right...

Man that was driving me crazy... Thanks so much Luke for lending a voice of reason.

luke_l · Joined: 30 Oct 2014 Posts: 63 Location: Kingston, ON

Haha. I know how hard it can be to find your own wiring mistakes... I used to do aircraft electrical for a living, and it's too easy to glaze over things "well, I know I did this right, I remember doing it" even subconsciously.

Glad you figured it out