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Super High Residual Alkalinity

 
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Besk one



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 26



PostLink    Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject: Super High Residual Alkalinity Reply with quote


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I got the numbers adjusted close to a decent IPA profile, but I have to add so much lactic acid to get the mash ph to the right level, if I add salts or not.

What do you all think?


Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 51
Mg: 14
Na: 53
Cl: 58
SO4: 53
CaCO3: 190

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 4.61 / 7.37
RO or distilled %: 0% / 0%

Total Grain (lb): 14.8

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 5 / 7.993492408
CaCl2: 0 / 0
MgSO4: 1 / 1.598698482
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 5
Sauermalz (oz): 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 116 / 116
Mg: 19 / 19
Na: 53 / 53
Cl: 58 / 58
SO4: 235 / 235
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.25 / 0.25

Alkalinity (CaCO3): -146
RA: -240
Estimated pH: 5.47
(room temp)



If I cut it with 50% RO Water I can get this, but I'm trying not to have to buy water.

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 51
Mg: 14
Na: 53
Cl: 58
SO4: 53
CaCO3: 190

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 4.61 / 7.37
RO or distilled %: 50% / 50%

Total Grain (lb): 14.8

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 6 / 9.592190889
CaCl2: 0 / 0
MgSO4: 2 / 3.197396963
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 2
Sauermalz (oz): 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 104 / 104
Mg: 18 / 18
Na: 27 / 27
Cl: 29 / 29
SO4: 263 / 263
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.11 / 0.11

Alkalinity (CaCO3): -39
RA: -124
Estimated pH: 5.58
(room temp)
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Tungsten



Joined: 06 Dec 2014
Posts: 316
Location: Buffalo, NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How high is your base water in terms of pH?

Edit: I have a bunch of thoughts on this because water chemistry is a personal favorite topic of mine, but I figured I'd start with that question Smile
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10598
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't use EZ Water to calculate how much lactic to add. It's not easy/obvious/not always correct. Use your pH meter.
There's a lot of things that a spreadsheet simply cannot accurately model. pH is one of them.

I use EZ Water to figure out how much salts to add to the mash and to the boil. Add the salts to the mash, stir well, measure pH, then add lactic 1ml at a time & stir/re-measure until you get into the target range.

Tungsten wrote:
How high is your base water in terms of pH?

Water pH doesn't matter. Don't worry about your water's pH. It's the buffering ability that matters. My water's at ~9 pH but it has very little buffering ability so even a little bit of grain or lactic acid knocks it right down.

I only need to add lactic to the mash for very light coloured beers, typically ones that are only or mostly base low lovibond (colour) malt. Like a lager that's 100% 2-row or similar to which I don't add a ton of salts to begin with. It usually only takes 2-3 ml of 88% lactic at most to bring the pH down into the right range (10 gallon batches).

Kal

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Besk one



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 26



PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK cool, so just add the salts, then measure and add the acid until ph is at the right level.


My starting PH is ~7.9
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10598
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct. Again, starting pH doesn't matter. Ignore it.

Kal

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Tungsten



Joined: 06 Dec 2014
Posts: 316
Location: Buffalo, NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Water pH doesn't matter. Don't worry about your water's pH. It's the buffering ability that matters. My water's at ~9 pH but it has very little buffering ability so even a little bit of grain or lactic acid knocks it right down.

I only need to add lactic to the mash for very light coloured beers, typically ones that are only or mostly base low lovibond (colour) malt. Like a lager that's 100% 2-row or similar to which I don't add a ton of salts to begin with. It usually only takes 2-3 ml of 88% lactic at most to bring the pH down into the right range (10 gallon batches).

Kal


Hmm, interesting. I admittedly am somewhat new to tracking pH in my beers and I've always done the "measure and add a little bit at a time until it's right" method and it's worked like a charm. I usually need about 3 ml of the same 88% lactic acid to adjust as well, but that's only for 5 gallon batches. I just assumed it was because my water's pH is at 8 and a lot of brewers start with RO water. But you're saying that doesn't matter... which sounds vaguely familiar. Buffering capacity is related to the bicarbonates in the water or something... right?

Time for some reading!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10598
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, German Pils, Belgian Dubbel, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tungsten wrote:
Buffering capacity is related to the bicarbonates in the water or something... right?

I can't confirm 100% but I think so... Wink Some water's harder and buffers more so that adding lactic doesn't have as much effect. Softer water will drop more when you add lactic.

Kal

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