Using 50A panel for back to back batches

[FredBurst]

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Has anyone used the 50A control panel with 4 heating elements to do back to back batches, by connecting only two of the heating elements (one for bk, one for hlt).

I'm thinking of buying the 50A CP with 4 heating elements so my brewing time is shorter on single batch days, but I also want the ability of doing a back to back batch day. Has anyone done this, or can it be done?

[kal]

You would require a different switch setup as the 50A control panel with 4 heating elements has 1 3-way switch to choose which of the two kettles is on (2 elements max per kettle). The 50A back to back panel has separate on/off switches for each kettle (1 heating element per kettle).

To do this safely you'd need to design a panel that allows:

- 2 heating elements on per kettle (only one kettle at a time)
- 1 heating elemennt on per kettle (both kettles on at the same time)

Doing so would require reworking how the switches work (not sure how this could be done logically and still make it easy to use). To this safely you'd also have to have 4 contactors instead 2 so that two of the 4 heating element receptacles could be disabled when switching to "Back to back mode". Simply hoping that the user remembers to disconnect 2 of the 4 heating elements before switching over is (IMHO) not a safe way to design a setup. Given the extra internal parts required and possibly more switches on the front, you'd probably need a larger enclosure too.

Kal

[kal]

You would require a different switch setup as the 50A control panel with 4 heating elements has 1 3-way switch to choose which of the two kettles is on (2 elements max per kettle). The 50A back to back panel has separate on/off switches for each kettle (1 heating element per kettle).

To do this safely you'd need to design a panel that allows:

- 2 heating elements on per kettle (only one kettle at a time)
- 1 heating elemennt on per kettle (both kettles on at the same time)

Doing so would require reworking how the switches work (not sure how this could be done logically and still make it easy to use). To this safely you'd also have to have 4 contactors instead 2 so that two of the 4 heating element receptacles could be disabled when switching to "Back to back mode". Simply hoping that the user remembers to disconnect 2 of the 4 heating elements before switching over is (IMHO) not a safe way to design a setup. Given the extra internal parts required and possibly more switches on the front, you'd probably need a larger enclosure too.

Kal

[FredBurst]

Thanks for the response, Kal!

So, no easy way to do it, then. I just wanted to know which panel to buy, and the pros/cons of each one. I saw that no one had ask that so I went ahead and did. It's good to know that there's a possibility but it requires more time/space.

All I have to do is decide which panel fits my needs best. Tough decision, haha.

[kal]

I get this question from time to time. The real way to have a back to back with 4 elements is to build a 100A setup but that's considerably more expensive, and such thick wire makes you rethink how a panels built (very hard to work with). Most people that want both panels combined into one simply end up going with one or the other depending on where the priority is.

Kal

[kal]

I get this question from time to time. The real way to have a back to back with 4 elements is to build a 100A setup but that's considerably more expensive, and such thick wire makes you rethink how a panels built (very hard to work with). Most people that want both panels combined into one simply end up going with one or the other depending on where the priority is.

Kal

[Creepy]

Kevin59 did a nice "aftermarket" add-on to his 30A panel to make it a back-to-back panel. I ended getting one of Kal's prebuilt 50A 30+gal panels with the thought that I might be able to do something similar to what Kevin did in the future. Kal brings up some very good space considerations that might prohibit this kind of upgrade to an already crowded 50A panel. But, in the words of dumb and dumber: so you're tellin' me there's a chance! Here's a link to Kevin59's thread on his upgrade:
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=306630#306630
Cheers!

[FredBurst]

So there's a chance!
I'm gonna go ahead and build a 6'x6' 100A control panel

The 50A will have to do, thanks guys

[foomench]

What if you got the 50A back-to-back panel, and when you wanted to speed things up, you changed how things were plugged in during the brew, in particular on single batch days? It would change the procedures, but I think this might be feasible. The "booster" element would just be run in manual mode until you got close to the desired temperature. During this time you might even just want to run the primary element in manual as well, because otherwise you would want different PID settings when the element is being run alone vs. with a helper. What you give up over the 50A single batch panel is PID control of two elements.

[Tungsten]

I didn't really think this through so I'm not sure if wiring it is doable, but what about just adding a second 3 way switch?

1st switch: Toggles Element A (Boil) and B (HLT)
2nd switch: Toggles Element C (Boil) and D (HLT)

A&C are tied into the boil PID, B&D obviously tied into the HLT PID. This ensures you never have more than 2 elements on at once.

[Tungsten]