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MLT return silicon hose

 
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rcrabb22



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 462
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: MLT return silicon hose Reply with quote


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I use a Kal clone system and up to this point I have never done a fly or continuous sparge. Kal uses a a 5ft silicon tube wort return and sparge water. My silicon hose is about 2 ft long. I really hate to ask this question but does size matter?
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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: MLT return silicon hose Reply with quote

rcrabb22 wrote:
does size matter?


Ehemm...

Yes...

You don't want the end to plunge into the grain bed. I was mashing with one of my hoses that had a SS cam lock on it and I thought it was long enough. It wasn't. The short tube especially combined with the weight of the camlock fitting would work it's way down into the grain and was probably channeling a bit.

You want the recirculation line to lay ON TOP of the grain bed and make almost a full circle around the circumference of the MLT. This way, the grains are supporting the hose and not allowing it to work down into the grains.

This last weekend was my first time to use a newer longer hose... It worked well...
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KES



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 473
Location: Iowa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does size matter? Well, length over size matters. Wink
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10738
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: MLT return silicon hose Reply with quote

huaco wrote:
You want the recirculation line to lay ON TOP of the grain bed and make almost a full circle around the circumference of the MLT. This way, the grains are supporting the hose and not allowing it to work down into the grains.

Yep. This is the reason why I went with the length I did. I looked at other setups like Sabco to see how they did it and used about the same length. You can use shorter if you use some sort of floating device. Blichmann does this with the hose on their auto-sparge arm. It is pretty short but then has some sort of foam float device on the end. I didn't want the floating foam thing in my beer because I want to limit the use of plastics. It would also make cleaning a bit harder and it would probably tear/break over the long run.



Kal

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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^
Adjusting that thing looks to be a real PITA to use. Adjust the arm to the correct height. Hope it maintains... Just seems gratuitous compared to the simplicity of laying a hose down on the grains!

I did realize something real quick though. while doughing in, I removed the hose from the MLT and propped it up on a hook on the wall above my MLT. Then, I started the mash recirc through the HERMS coil. ha! Didn't take me long to shut that pump down! Placed the return hose where it needed to be (on top of the grains) turned my pump back on and started mashing. SPLASH happens! Glad I sealed up the panel pretty well. This time it didn't get wet, but it sure could...
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KES



Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 473
Location: Iowa


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 huaco. The hose is so much simpler.
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rcrabb22



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 462
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input. I will replace mine with a longer section of silicon tubing. Good thing I have spare tubing in my "parts" inventory.
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wubears71



Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 278
Location: Webster Groves, MO

Drinking: Keg 1- Hefenweizen, Keg 2- Vanilla Scotch Porter, Keg 3-Munich Helles

Working on: Stinky IPA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: MLT return silicon hose Reply with quote

kal wrote:
huaco wrote:
You want the recirculation line to lay ON TOP of the grain bed and make almost a full circle around the circumference of the MLT. This way, the grains are supporting the hose and not allowing it to work down into the grains.

Yep. This is the reason why I went with the length I did. I looked at other setups like Sabco to see how they did it and used about the same length. You can use shorter if you use some sort of floating device. Blichmann does this with the hose on their auto-sparge arm. It is pretty short but then has some sort of foam float device on the end. I didn't want the floating foam thing in my beer because I want to limit the use of plastics. It would also make cleaning a bit harder and it would probably tear/break over the long run.



Kal


I actually have the Auto sparge and pulled it out this week. Th issue is that it restricts flow through the HERMS way too much. However, it does a fabulous job maintaining constant level during sparging. I also had to get a longer threaded rod as the stock one comes no where near the grain bed on a 10 gallon batch even with a big grain bill.

I am actually going to add another valve on the other side of the kettle and install the auto sparge so I can use it while sparging. I will basically bypass it by using the Kal setup while recirculating through the HERMS. I figure since I already have it I will use it but looking back I would not have bought it. It was purchased before I decided to go full electric.

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wubears71



Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 278
Location: Webster Groves, MO

Drinking: Keg 1- Hefenweizen, Keg 2- Vanilla Scotch Porter, Keg 3-Munich Helles

Working on: Stinky IPA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way the Blichmann Auto Sparge now uses a large, stainless steel hollow floating ball instead of the black plastic thingie.


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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

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PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah! Good to know. Certainly a step in the right direction.

Kal

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CapnBry



Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 53
Location: Tampa, FL


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add another point to this already solved thread, I started with a shorter hose too. I thought "Why does it need to go all the way down? It should just need to go to the top of the grain". As others have pointed out, if your hose isn't long enough to lay down on the grain to spread the weight, it just digs into the grain bed and channels during sparge.

I also had issues during recirculation with the shorter tube, which would direct most of the force of the return fluid in a downward direction, and cause it to not fully circulate around the mash like you see in Kal's video. I'd get a small pocket of mash circulation then the rest would just be stagnant and the temperature would vary from one side to the other. I thought there was just too much flow restriction in my coil, but when I swapped the return tubing for a piece that had enough to lay down on the bottom of the mash tun, it fully circulated.

During my sparge I use one of those stainless fold-out vegetable steamers from the kitchen and lay it on top of the grain then put the sparge hose in the loop in the middle. I'm not sure that's necessary but I feel better about the way it spreads the flow and holds the tubing right in the middle.
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huaco



Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Posts: 1508
Location: Burleson Texas


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't bother my return hose during sparge... I just start pumping in Hot Liquor. Now, at a MUCH slower rate than I recirculated the mash with, mind you...
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Kevin59



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Posts: 1049
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale

Working on: Oatmeal Stout, IPA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of hose length... I just added one of these to my setup this past weekend:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007L5PQT2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B007L5PQT2&linkCode=as2&tag=theelectricbrewery-20

I drilled through the cork with a 3/4" forstner bit. The silicone hose is a nice friction fit inside the cork. It made it much easier to keep track of the end of the hose, and now that it's on there I could probably shorted the hose by a couple of feet.
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-MG-



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 203



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of like the idea of it floating... That way you would feel better about channeling.

Might be just over engineering, dunno.

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use a Blichmann kettle with their false bottom for the mash tun, I find channelling to be impossible to create. I prefer to not use anything floating so that the hose is mostly submerged as this this makes sure that you're not aerating the wort:



Sometimes it's considerably more sunk in but that's ok too.

Kal

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Kevin59



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
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Location: Fort Collins, CO

Drinking: Imperial Brown Ale

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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put the cork back about 5-6" from the end of the hose, so the hose opening sits partially submerged. No aeration at all...
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omega697



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 8



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been having issues with channeling, I think. When I'm done with mash and start the sparge, the force of the swirling liquid has pushed the grain over to one side, and it's almost all the way down to the false bottom on the side right by the hose output. I also have been getting fairly low efficiency (75%?). Not sure what's up with that. I crush a reasonable size (.043"), I sparge slowly, I modify my mash pH (though not my sparge pH, will try that next). Hard for me not to believe that the very non-flat grain bed isn't having an effect.

I'm going to put a perforated pizza baking sheet in the MLT over the grain but under the return hose next time and see if that helps at all.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10738
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Kolsch, Belgian IPA, Red IPA, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen, Belgian Quad, Wit, English Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

omega697: What sort of kettles/false bottom are you using?

When you say you sparge slowly, how slow do you mean? ie: How long to sparge for a X gallons in the boil kettle?

I do get some dips and holes in the mash bed where the hose lies, but if you have a good setup it shouldn't matter.

It doesn't sound normal if you have hole all the way down the false bottom however. How big are the kettles? What batch size are you brewing? How full is your MLT usually? Got any pictures?

Kal

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