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Kal's basement Brewery/Bar/Home Theatre build 2.0
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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exception13 wrote:
Hey Kal,

Just wanted to add my congrats for the BYO article and now a winning basement design as documented in The Ottawa Citizen.

Really? Today's paper? (Nov 23?). I'll have to snag a copy if that's the case. I heard rumours that they were going to run an article.... EDIT: Yup. It was today's... I picked up a copy.

Quote:
We are building a new home on the Upper Rideau near Westport. I have space set aside for my brewery and, when $$$ permit, will be going electric with your system. The brewery will probably not be as integrated and visible as your's is, but the documentation of your build has definitely given me ideas on how to add it to our walk-out basement.

Congrats again and Cheers!

Thanks and good luck your own basement build! Please feel free to start a build thread here if you like - people love reading this stuff (I know I do!).

Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found it...:

http://ottawacitizen.com/life/homes/basement-beauties

It covers many basements that were done. Here's the relevant portion for our basement with the pictures - cut & pasted here as newspapers don't tend to keep stories and photos online for long...:

Quote:
OTTAWA — Bars have been a feature of basements for at least as long as suburban dads have been turning concrete walls into rec rooms. But the winning entry in the basement renovation category at this year’s Housing Design Awards sponsored by the Greater Ottawa Home Builders’ Association takes both beer and basements to a whole different level.Designed and built by Ottawa’s Just Basements, the spectacular below-grade makeover includes a complete electric microbrewery behind a custom quartz and walnut bar. The sleek, gleaming brewery with its chrome draft tower was the homeowner’s idea and it produces eight types of beer — just the thing to quaff while unwinding in the tiered home theatre or after a spell in the custom-built infrared sauna.

The high-end makeover illustrates “the trend of people willing to go to the trouble of designing spaces and spending money in the basement to have what we would never have thought of before,” says Just Basements’ Norm Lecuyer.

In keeping with the tastes of home buyers, basement renovation clients are increasingly asking for slick, modern designs, he says. In the case of the craft beer-loving homeowner, that meant a grey-toned colour scheme, strong lines, and metal and glass accents.


The bar of a winning Just Basements project features eight site-brewed beers on tap at the chrome draft tower.


Designed and built by Just Basements, the winning design in this year’s Housing Design Awards basement renovation category features a grey-toned colour scheme, strong lines, and metal and glass accents.


Taking beer and basements to a new level, the winning entry in this year’s basement renovation category at the Housing Design Awards is a sleek and stylish space by Just Basements that features a microbrewery.


Sleek and stylish, this winning basement design by Just Basements was inspired by homeowners wishing for a great place to enjoy their passions for entertaining, movies and beer.


The microbrewery in the Just Basements project is touted as one of the largest home breweries in Ontario. (Kal: Really? I wonder who came up with that... that's not something I ever said).


A custom-built infrared sauna is just one of the many features in the Just Basements winning project. (Kal: The sauna's actually not IR. I originally considered IR when it was going to be a small space (1-2 seater) but going traditional was actually cheaper given the larger size of the sauna we went with (5x7 feet). IR saunas are also a completely different 'feel' and not what I'm used to either, which is one of the reasons we decided to go larger in order to put in a traditional heater).


The bar of a winning Just Basements project features eight site-brewed beers on tap at the chrome draft tower.



Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Holter



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 221
Location: Los Angeles, Ca


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very very awesome. Congrats Kal.
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Doubleplugga



Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Perth, Australia

Drinking: Store bought craft beer

Working on: Ruthless Rye clone!


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is nothing short of Epic Kal! Well done mate.
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smoothlarryhughes



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal...I was wondering what size can lights you are using, and if you are using the halogen bulbs, or LED.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAR20 halogen lights everywhere except for:

- The 3 over the bar and inside the bar niche with shelves are GU10 halogen.
- The 2 over the wine bottle racks are GU10 LED.

I haven't found any LEDs I like that aren't overly cold looking (low colour temp). The two LED GU10's over the wine rack are noticeable cooler in colour temperature than all the other halogens.

Eventually will probably go LED (the rest of the house is mostly CFLs from the builder) but have to wait until the technology matures. LED is also bloody expensive if you want to change out 40-50 bulbs at once.

Kal

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smoothlarryhughes



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
PAR20 halogen lights everywhere except for:

- The 3 over the bar and inside the bar niche with shelves are GU10 halogen.
- The 2 over the wine bottle racks are GU10 LED.

I haven't found any LEDs I like that aren't overly cold looking (low colour temp). The two LED GU10's over the wine rack are noticeable cooler in colour temperature than all the other halogens.

Eventually will probably go LED (the rest of the house is mostly CFLs from the builder) but have to wait until the technology matures. LED is also bloody expensive if you want to change out 40-50 bulbs at once.

Kal


Thanks Kal for the information...what size are the lights (4, 5, or 6 inches) and do you know how many you can install per 15 amp circuit?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smoothlarryhughes wrote:
Thanks Kal for the information...what size are the lights (4, 5, or 6 inches)

I believe they're 4 inch, but I'm not 100% sure as I don't know where that measurement comes from.

Quote:
and do you know how many you can install per 15 amp circuit?

That's something you're best to discuss with your electrician. Code may vary location to location.

Kal

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Someguy



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on your beautiful basement, Kal.

I'm just starting the planning stage of our basement renno. Our basement is mostly complete already, to a similar standard to yours. It was done by the previous owner.

I have 2 areas left to figure out, the theatre room and the brewery. Its great luck that I stumbled on this thread as it has many great ideas in it.

I've been mulling over where I want to brew (kitchen, garage, basement) for the last month. I've been avoiding the basement because I didn't want to be stuck in a room that I felt isolated in. I love how the window in your brewery opened things up in that regard. It turns the brewery into a showcase and gives it a much different feel inside. I'd love to work in a brewery room like yours.

Now that you've brewed in yours a bit, how do you find the space ? Its 11 x 13, right ? Do you wish it was larger ? Is it too big ?

Do you wish that your fermenters were in the brewery ? Do you have another area where you are racking and filtering or do you bring them into the brewery ?

You brew 10 and 15 gallon batches, right ? You are kegging with cornies, ie 5 gallons. Where are you storing your other cornies ? Is it a pain that they aren't in the brewery ?

As far as the brewery goes, what would you do differently ?

The most convenient space I would have for my brewery is 9'6" x 15', inside dimensions. I'll have 1 window in it. That leaves me a rectange 23 x 18 for the theatre and whatever else I want to put in there. The window in my brewery would probably be on the 15 foot wall, not the 9'6" wall. Any suggestions or advice for laying out my brewery ?

I too will have windows in my theater space. What, if anything, are you doing for blackouts ?

I have a dilemma. We have a beautiful family room and kitchen on the main floor. 90% of the time when we have people over, we'll be up there. Our theater room will not have theater seating. It will have couches and such to make it more of a family/games room. We'll probably use it for watching sports as well as movies. It probably won't have an elaborate bar setup as we just wouldn't use it that much. If we want snacks and such, we'll bring them down from the main floor.

Here is the question... should I put the tap line in the pantry on the main floor or in the basement inside or beside the brewery ? If I put it in the basement, every time I want a beer for dinner or we have company over, I'll be running downstairs. If I put it in the pantry, we'd have to go upstairs every time we wanted a beer while watching a game. Given a choice, which would you implement ?

My brewery wouldl be pretty much right underneath the pantry, but the tap lines would still need to be 20' or so.

Do you wish you had a floor drain in your brewery ? My basement floor has hot water heat in it. I could put a floor drain in, but I'd be patching hydronic lines to do so. Would you put in a drain ?

One other question... the ceiling is drywalled where we plan to put the theater. Would you rip down the drywall to soundproof the ceiling ?

BTW, I have a JVC RS45 and love it.

Sorry for the ramble... any and all ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Someguy



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other space I have for the brewery is 12' x 18'. Its currently an exercise room. I could easily relocate it. Its a bit small anyway. The brewery window would then either back onto the theater space or side onto it, depending where we put the screen.

I'd love to see a drawing of how you are using your brewery space. I'm worried that 9'6" x 15 won't be big enough if I ferment in the room. Maybe I need to stop wanting to do that, but then I feel that I am going to be dragging fermentors in and out of the brewery, unless I have a fermenting room with racking equipment in it somewhere else. I would probably put my grain storage and mill in the garage, so that would free up some room in the brewery. I'd probably go with 3 or 4 small conical fermenters.

Luckily I don't need to decide this stuff until fall, 2014.

BTW, what brand is the big round light that hangs in the sitting area ?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someguy wrote:
Now that you've brewed in yours a bit, how do you find the space ? Its 11 x 13, right ? Do you wish it was larger ? Is it too big ?

11x13 feet is correct. I find it works well. A large portion of the space is used up by the 8 keg serving freezer (keezer), hop/yeast freezer, 6 keg conditioning fridge, and grain storage shelves. So it really depends on what stuff you have and just like a real commercial brewery, what your pipeline looks like.

Allocating more space to the actual wort creation side isn't something I need. I don't find myself wanting more table space. Originally I thought I'd have a table in the middle of the room too and be able to walk around but there simply isn't the room and I don't think it would benefit anything. Having an empty space in the middle works well for when I'm cleaning buckets/fermenters, have grain bins out for milling, etc.

If you brewed significantly different batch sizes and/or more often you may want (for example) a lot more grain storage. It really depends on your pipeline/needs.

Quote:
Do you wish that your fermenters were in the brewery ? Do you have another area where you are racking and filtering or do you bring them into the brewery ?

I mostly ferment in the brewery as I mostly do ales and use regular food grade ~8 gallon plastic fermenting buckets. The room is not heated so it's usually at around 65F. I use a "son of fermentation chiller" (google for the plans) that I built years ago for fermenting lagers (~6 gallons at a time).

I'm still toying with the idea of this 14 gallon cooled conical but haven't convinced myself completely yet. If/when I add one of these it can go beside the conditioning fridge. I like the fact that locking wheels are available so that it can be moved around.

Quote:
You brew 10 and 15 gallon batches, right ? You are kegging with cornies, ie 5 gallons. Where are you storing your other cornies ? Is it a pain that they aren't in the brewery ?

I have 17 cornies, 14 of which are usually always in use (8 in the serving keezer, 6 in the conditioning fridge). The extra few usually sit in the corner under the control panel.

Quote:
As far as the brewery goes, what would you do differently ?

Nope. Been very happy with it. It's my second one but the hot side process is the same as before and I spent a long time thinking about the layout even before construction began to make sure everything I wanted would fit in.

Quote:
Any suggestions or advice for laying out my brewery ?

Nothing specific, no - figure out what you want in there how big the things are and see how things can fit in. Feel free to start your own thread here with your proposed layout and ask for feedback.

Quote:
I too will have windows in my theater space. What, if anything, are you doing for blackouts ?

We have two small windows with horizontal blinds. I purposely didn't want anything that had complete light control as that would impede airflow around the window which is not good for our climate here (condensation/ice/etc). We mostly use the Home Theater at night so any slight light bleed is a non-issue. If the HT's on during the day it's the kids playing or watching something and they don't care and often have the lights on a bit anyway. Wink

Quote:
Here is the question... should I put the tap line in the pantry on the main floor or in the basement inside or beside the brewery ?

That's really up to you.

Quote:
If I put it in the basement, every time I want a beer for dinner or we have company over, I'll be running downstairs. If I put it in the pantry, we'd have to go upstairs every time we wanted a beer while watching a game. Given a choice, which would you implement ?

Really depends on your needs and how you plan on using the spaces, which one you think you'd use more, etc. You could always do both, but then Murphy's Law will state that the beer you want is the one at the *other* tap. Wink

Quote:
Do you wish you had a floor drain in your brewery ?

I do have a floor drain. It's just slightly under the hop/yeast freezer near the door. It's for emergencies only. In other words, I never planned on dumping into it on purpose. It's only there in case I forget to turn something off to avoid water or wort from leaving the room. The entire room is tiled including a few inches up the wall. We had the builder install the floor drai a good year or two before the basement was done with anticipation that the brewery *might* in that room and the placement worked out well. (We also had the builder put in a stack/drain near where the bar taps are in anticipation of the bar going there. As luck would have it we didn't have to break concrete at all in the bar/brewery area. The plumbing the builder put in for a future bathroom however was completely torn up).

Quote:
My basement floor has hot water heat in it. I could put a floor drain in, but I'd be patching hydronic lines to do so. Would you put in a drain ?

I don't know what's involved with patching hydronic lines so no idea on the cost/effort involved vs. the benefits of having a drain 'just in case'. Probably not worth it, but up to you. I've never had any major leaks or issues in the 100's of batches I've brewed since 2009. I once forgot to close the boil kettle output valve when sparging and drained about a gallon of sticky wort onto the floor that spread out all under the sink and brew table, but not enough to get to the drain. What a sticky mess to clean up.

Quote:
One other question... the ceiling is drywalled where we plan to put the theater. Would you rip down the drywall to soundproof the ceiling ?

There are varying ways to create isolation. Filling the cavity with insulation as I did actually doesn't do much. You'd be better to put a second layer of drywall on top with green glue in between. If you want to really isolate, you need to build a room within a room. Between the two are varying levels of isolation using isolation clips, resilient channel, etc. It really depends on your needs and expectations, how much isolation you expect. We did very little because of how we use the HT: If it's cranked it's because we're all watching something so I don't care about sound leakage to the main floor. Often it's when the kids are sleeping two floors up and you can't hear a thing that far away. At our previous house the basement didn't even have a door - it was an open staircase to the main floor. Distance does a lot for keeping sound isolated.

Our HT is also completely open to the rest of the basement so doing any sort of 'real' sound isolation work would have required us to do it to the entire basement to do it right.

Quote:
Sorry for the ramble... any and all ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


If I were you I would start your own build thread and post ideas there/ask for suggestions/opinions. Lots of very helpful people here. For HT related questions you can do the same at my HT site's forum. See: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/
Lots of very smart HT'ers over there too.

Good luck!

Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0


Last edited by kal on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:08 pm; edited 3 times in total
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someguy wrote:
I'd love to see a drawing of how you are using your brewery space.

Do I not have one somewhere in this thread? Maybe not. There are pictures throughout that do show what's in there but probably not a single diagram.

Quote:
BTW, what brand is the big round light that hangs in the sitting area ?


See here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=292361#292361

Kal

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Someguy



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments, Kal.

One more quick question... your analog projector was built into a box. It doesn't appear as though your digital projector will be.

If you had the chance, would you build the projector into a box/wall to hide it ?
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foomench



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 710
Location: Longmont, CO

Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

Working on: Flanders oude bruin in barrel, Flanders red fermenting to refill the barrel


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someguy wrote:
Here is the question... should I put the tap line in the pantry on the main floor or in the basement inside or beside the brewery ? If I put it in the basement, every time I want a beer for dinner or we have company over, I'll be running downstairs. If I put it in the pantry, we'd have to go upstairs every time we wanted a beer while watching a game. Given a choice, which would you implement ?

I really question running 20' beer lines in a home setting. In a commercial brewpub where the beer is flowing pretty constantly, long lines are an o.k. At home? I don't know about you, but I'll pour one beer, maybe two, and then a few days later another. With five on tap, one might go untouched for a week or two. (Obviously when we have a party or friends over, things are flowing, but that isn't every day, and not even every week.) I wouldn't want beer sitting in a long line for that long. And then there is the issue of keeping the line cool. Yes, it can be done, but that's another system you have to maintain and run.

Location in the basement could help. I used to have a keezer in the basement. It was right at the bottom of the stairs. Now I have a walk-in cooler, with taps through the wall (no chilling of lines needed). It is also located right at the bottom of the stairs. It is slightly inconvenient to go down the stairs to get a beer, but this seemed to be the best compromise location to me. Now if you can't locate the beer in a good central location, that changes things ...

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Someguy



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've given up on putting the tap on the main floor. I agree with the length issues you point out. The taps will be in the basement.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someguy wrote:
One more quick question... your analog projector was built into a box. It doesn't appear as though your digital projector will be.

If you had the chance, would you build the projector into a box/wall to hide it ?

No. There's no need as it's dead silent. The CRT projector was not and required a hushbox with a ventilation system.

Kal

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Sketchin



Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 169
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal's basement made it to theChive!

http://thechive.com/2014/02/06/some-homes-are-a-cut-above-the-rest-31-photos/

Photo#5!
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Doubleplugga



Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 42
Location: Perth, Australia

Drinking: Store bought craft beer

Working on: Ruthless Rye clone!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Kal, well done mate. Not much else I can say. I wish basements were big here in oz but they are not. Guess it's just not cold enough!
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9813
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone emailed me today to let me know that one of our designer's photos has been used here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/09/cool-basements_n_4747813.html?ir=Parents

Kal

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Svendsen



Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wubears71 wrote:
You really suck!!!!! I'm so jealous of your entire basement as it will have everything I want except for a wood working shop.

I cannot wait to see the final product. Having that extra space will be so nice. The tanks/conicals will be a nice addition.


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