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How much hops if only hopping during flameout (hop stand)?
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skelley



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 210
Location: brookfield, wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I take it you are carbing on the line in versus the line out. Do you think it makes a difference, I have read different thoughts. It certainly would be easier to wait for the full two weeks to carb if you could easily sample without contaminating!
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skelley



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 210
Location: brookfield, wisconsin


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for additional post. What do you mean by carb to 5 psi. Carbing is measured in vol CO2. Do you mean at 5psi and 32 degrees which produces 2.2 Vol CO2??
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9886
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, yes. Pressure's set to 4 to 5 psi with temp at 32F.

You're absolutely right ... volumes of CO2 is a more accurate way to mention this. I like my carb level a bit on the low side. Most American ales and lagers should probably be between 2.2 and 2.7.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9886
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skelley wrote:
I take it you are carbing on the line in versus the line out. Do you think it makes a difference, I have read different thoughts. It certainly would be easier to wait for the full two weeks to carb if you could easily sample without contaminating!


I'm not sure how it could make a difference given enough time, but then I've never tested it. Carbin'ing on the out post would bubble co2 through the beer so maybe it would carb faster.

I carb on the regular in line. I just hook up the gas and leave it. I find all beer needs a good 2 to 4 weeks to mellow/reach its prime so I like the simple set & forget method.

Karl

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9886
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skelley wrote:
Kal
could you explain you set up for sampling the keg while it is carbing? Not sure what you mean by QDs and picnic taps??


Quick disconnect: http://morebeer.com/products/ball-lock-beverage-flare.html?a_aid=theelectricbrewery

Picnic tap/cobra tap: http://morebeer.com/products/faucet-hand-held.html?site_id=7?a_aid=theelectricbrewery

I connect the two with a short piece of tubing with hose clamps.

Kal

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zeppman



Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 135



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any update on this?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9886
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We did have the competition. Mine came in third (out of 11). While not overly bitter, mine was probably hoppier tasting that what people are used to in a typical APA. It was certainly more hop flavoured that the commercial calibration APA that was used in the judging. I took some pictures and hope to be posting them soon along with some additional text.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9886
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So back on May 4th a local APA brewing competition was held for which I originally brewed this recipe. As stated above, my beer came in 3rd out of 11 entries.

Judging was 50% people's choice from blind sampling (the brewers chose their top 3 and awarded 1, 2, or 3 points) and 50% by two BJCP judges who filled out score sheets. I'm actually surprised it scored that high given that it's a bit 'out there' and I was trying something I've never done before.

Here were the rules as it's not your typical BJCP competition at all, nor was it BJCP sanctioned:

Quote:
Have multiple people brew either the exact same recipe or a recipe with restrictions so that participants show off their skills and to evaluate the differences between beers with minimal variables. This one is a little more open. Enjoy!

Style: American Pale Ale

Rules:

1. Sign Up
2. Brew the recipe. Only substitutes are those noted.
3. Present your sample at the Throwdown on May 4th.
4. Bring your recipe/brewsheet to the Throwdown for comparative purposes.
5. One official entry per person.

Targeted OG (adjust grain bill to hit this OG): 1.052

Grain: (Mash Temp: OPEN)
90% 2-row
5% Crystal 60L or Caramunich equivalent
5% Carafoam/Carapils/Oatmeal/Barley Flakes/Wheat (choice of 1 of the 5)

Hops (Targeted IBU is 40):
You can use 1 or any combination of ONLY the following hops: Chinook, citra, amarillo, cascade and centennial.
No specific hop schedule.

Dry Hopping:
0-2oz using hops listed above.

Yeast
US-05 or WLP001 or Wyeast 1056

Finings:
Whirfloc, Irish Moss, Gelatin (all optional)

I mashed mine at 150F, used US-05 in one fermenter and WY1056 in another as part of a separate test.

As mentioned previously the big 'difference' in my beer was the hop schedule. With only post boil hops it's definitely a bit 'out there'.

My recipe is here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26503

The stated 40 IBU requirement caused me some concern. I knew I'd have no way of guessing what the results would be like but that also nobody could argue that mine was or wasn't 40 IBU. Wink

As it turns out, out of the 11 blind samples I tried (as a brewer I was part of the 'peoples choice'), mine was the hoppiest. After trying all 11 I was able to pick mine out without difficulties. I found it had the most hop flavour but was surprisingly low in hop aroma given the amount of post boil kettle hops and dry hops used. I'm not sure why. I would have expected more hop aroma. I think next time I'll try lowering the amount of hops at flameout to about 1/2 and add some first wort hops instead. I may also brew it as an IPA (higher ABV). There's still room for lots of experimentation.

There were a few others that were fairly hoppy too in terms of flavour but used decidedly less late boil hops. It may be that I hit a brick wall in terms of hop flavours with only a few ounces and that after a certain point adding more wasn't doing much more.

There are a lot of variables at play including steeping temperature, steep time, and even the type of hop (as different hops have different oils that isomerize at different temperatures).

The beer tasted 'greener' (grassy) longer than most similar beers. It took a good month before this faded into the background. This is not surprising given the amount of vegetal matter (hops) that were used.

I definitely like the resulting beer and my fears of it being not bitter enough are completely unfounded. Compared to the other competition beers (and the 30 IBU commercial beer used as the 'calibration'), mine is definitely more bitter too, but not overly bitter. I've had a few more pints of since the competition and find that it's not a beer to be drunk even slightly warm. It needs to be very cold (35-38F) with low carbonation. It's extremely thirst quenching when served this way and the hop bitterness and flavours work well.

If anyone does similar tests to these please post your results. I'd be very curious to read them.

Here are some of the pictures I took at the competition:

Samples chilling:





BJCP score sheets were provided to the 'peoples choice' voters for those who wished to refer to them:



The 'calibration' beer was Lake of Bays Crosswind Pale Ale, a somewhat middle of the road example (low malt taste, low IBU):



The 'peoples choice' brewers trying out the various samples:



One of the people's choice brewers got really into it and managed to "P" himself*:



*The samples were all marked anonymously with letters. This brewer managed to spill the sample labelled "P" on himself, effectively "P-ing" himself. Hilarity ensued. Wink

The BJCP judges filling out the score sheets:





While the malt bill was fixed, at least one of the samples was noticeably darker in colour:



Our illustrious host tallies up the results:



... and then takes the prize (congrats!) while a disbeliever has to confirm the tally himself:



Kal

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Last edited by kal on Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fejj



Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Posts: 213
Location: North Shore, MA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC ive read somewhere that its highly suggested to not bottle in anything larger then a 12oz for comps. Ill have to see if i can locate the source and post it for you.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9886
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm locking this thread as a new official recipe has been posted here:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26503

Please post any questions or comments in that thread.

Kal

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