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Control Panel Troubleshooting
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perogi




Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 850
Location: NH

Drinking: Perogi Pale, NEIPA, Nutter's Crossing Nut Brown Ale, Edmund Fitzgerald Porter Clone

Working on: Max's Maibock


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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+1 thank you for this!!
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vedrosrp




Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 20
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Drinking: Amber Ale, Bavarian Weizen, Oatmeal Stout

Working on: Dead Ringer IPA, Walking Dead IPA, Orange Wheat Saison


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually wired up the Safe Start Interlock while I was initially wiring the main power relay. I tested the circuit before anything else was wired. All switches off = main relay comes on and blue light comes on. Any of the 3 switches turned on and the panel will not power up. When the panel was already on I was able to turn on any of the 3 switches and still maintain power to the panel.

I knew I was going to go the Safe Start Interlock route from the beginning so I just wired it up that way.

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jamatron




Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Sherwood Park AB


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you said that the output voltage on the doorbell transformer should read 120vac, i thought the output was supposed to be reduced to 12vac before it got to the dc pwr supply?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct. Good catch. Thank you. I've fixed the text.

Kal

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jamatron




Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Sherwood Park AB


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Correct. Good catch. Thank you. I've fixed the text.

Kal

whew! im just getting ready to start my wiring this weekend and thought i was ready then i read that . lol Btw tremendous job on the how - to on this site, there was no way i could have tackled a job like this with out it. Awesome site Mug

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamatron wrote:
Btw tremendous job on the how - to on this site, there was no way i could have tackled a job like this with out it. Awesome site Mug

Thanks! As long as the result is more beer in the world, my job here is done. Beer makes the world a happier place.

Kal

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TwoDogBrew




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a link or sticky to a full schematic diagram for the different panels. ? Or would this be just use PJ's schematics.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no "one" big schematic. They've been broken down into functional sections to make it easier for people to wire that may not be familiar with wiring.

Diagrams are here:

Standard 30A panel: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1

Standard 30A panel addendum for countries with only 240V: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25393

50A 30+ gallon panel addendum: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24918

50A back to back panel addendum: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25793

PJ is a user over at the HomeBrewTalk.com forum that has drawn up countless of schematics for people. They're all different. I don't think he does it anymore. He's in no way affiliated with us here. I can't speak for him nor have reviewed all of his work, so I don't see how you could use any of his diagrams for our panels. For what it's worth most of his designs include the feature of purposely shunting current to ground through an emergency stop switch to turn the panel off in case of an emergency. It assumes that your GFI breaker will protect you. Even though he argues that this is fine to do, this is not a safe practice and would never pass any sort of inspection and would never be allowed in a UL panel shop. I (and many others) strongly suggest not implementing such a feature. BYO magazine published one of his designs a few years back and I and other electrical engineer made them change it before it went to print (we're on the technical review board).

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:59 pm; edited 3 times in total
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sincere01




Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 162
Location: Gresham OR


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:

Thanks! As long as the result is more beer in the world, my job here is done. Beer makes the world a happier place.
Kal


There is definitely more beer at my house (and my friends houses) because of it!
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TwoDogBrew




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any idea why when i go to turn on the safe start relay or main contractor I trip my main ground fault breaker.. Even if i unhook everything and just have the coil hooked up I trip it.. But have no problem running a 5500w heating element directly and running for hours..

Is it the coil surge on the contractors ?

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the GFI is tripping something is not correct. It is not normal. Something has been done differently or incorrectly. It could be an incorrect part, incorrect wiring, or a defective part. It could be an incorrectly wired GFI. Unfortunately it's nearly impossible for someone to troubleshoot this for you remotely.

Kal

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TwoDogBrew




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rechecked all the wiring .. Replaced the ground fault with another breaker and all the functions work in the panel just fine..

I need to debug my Spa panel now.. maybe it is a faulty ground fault breaker.. eaton gfcb250 5mA sensitivity

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TwoDogBrew




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Want to check before hooking up meters ... I also having issues with a dc power supply.. Have not hooked up the output to DC side yet.. one supply adjusts just fine.. the other I turned the pot more then 30 times Clockwise and will not go down below 13.8vdc ..
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sincere01




Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 162
Location: Gresham OR


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Have not hooked up the output to DC side yet.. one supply adjusts just fine.. the other I turned the pot more then 30 times Clockwise and will not go down below 13.8vdc .


Did you source the parts yourself? If so, are you using doorbell transformers? If so, are you using the type that has variable voltage based on how you connect it? If the answers to all those questions are yes, you may want to check how the connections are and if you can re-wire them to a lower voltage on the transformer.
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TwoDogBrew




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sincere01 wrote:
Quote:
Have not hooked up the output to DC side yet.. one supply adjusts just fine.. the other I turned the pot more then 30 times Clockwise and will not go down below 13.8vdc .


Did you source the parts yourself? If so, are you using doorbell transformers? If so, are you using the type that has variable voltage based on how you connect it? If the answers to all those questions are yes, you may want to check how the connections are and if you can re-wire them to a lower voltage on the transformer.


All parts from b2b kit ..

i will check the incoming AC to the board next.. but the transformers are identical
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sincere01




Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 162
Location: Gresham OR


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kit? like you bought if from Kal and Mike?
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TwoDogBrew




Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 13



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sincere01 wrote:
kit? like you bought if from Kal and Mike?


Yes.. bought the full B2B kit from Kal and Mike.. and a perfect kit I might add.. no issues except this one.. Took me two days to assemble.. I will put up pics later of the box it self.

BTW I am a EEE and past life designed and built industrial automation controls like this.. So knowledge is not the issue here.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/108423930313055883312/albums/5837437514564241345
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added a hint on how to run a PID without a temperature probe. This can sometimes be handy when testing a PID/SSR/heating element when a probe is not available.

Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added a couple of hints that have to do specifically with SSR leakage current (these are common questions):

Quote:
The ELEMENT ON yellow light glows dimly when the ELEMENT SELECT switch is in the ON position without the element connected! Is something broken?

I'm measuring voltage at the output of the SSR even though the SSR is supposed to be off! Is it broken?


Kal

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added a new hint:

Quote:
One of my switches works backwards! It's on when it should be off, and off when it should be on.
Switches use either NO or NC contactors (or both). Make sure to use the correct ones following our wiring guides. If you are sure the correct ones are being used, reverse the position on the switch. For example, if the switch has the correct contactor installed on the left side and the switch is working backwards, install the contactor on the right. Ignore the 1/2/3/4 numbers printed on the contactors. Contactors are not polarized (there is no in or out connection points) so it doesn't matter which side of the contactor is used when wiring.


Kal

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Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
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