Sparge water acidification

randbrewer1010 · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 110

Question: I didn't purchase the lactic acid yet. How important is getting the sparge pH right in this setup if I am aiming for between 90-95% efficiency? What if I am at say, 6.2 instead of 6.0 (roughly) what will that cause? My LHBS owner gave me an earful about using lactic acid and being overly efficient and ruining beer, etc. etc. He also said the taste of lactic acid, even at a rate of just 2-3 ml for a 10G batch would show through. He recommended Phosphoric acid (which others claim is more stable at high temperature). This is a pretty advanced topic so I am having a hard time sorting through the noise on the bigger forums.

Note: I am measuring my water pH right now. I am reading about 7.8 for my brewing water (tap water). This concerns me quite a bit. I would rather not screw this part up. I think I will get the lactic acid tomorrow unless folks here have a different opinion.

Background:

So, I was at my local home brew store and I discussed a few things with the store owner. He seems to know his stuff, but I wanted to discuss the topic of sparge water pH and mash pH. I am going to be brewing for the first time this weekend so I want to get this right.

I was purchasing lactic acid and he asked me what is was for. I told him I intend to use it to acidify my sparge water pH to ~6.0. He cautioned me and said our water in the area was fine, don't worry about it. Then I explained I am trying a new setup with continuous sparging and it is really efficient, so I need to be careful about hitting my pH for my mash and my sparge water to avoid tannin extraction and hit my target gravity. He then cautioned me about trying to be overly efficient, etc. etc. I felt like it didn't apply to me as I know my setup and the collective experience everyone here has a lot better than he... but I wanted to at least discuss this. I feel like I should just use the lactic acid if I need it.

Thoughts?

Ben58 · Joined: 14 Aug 2011 Posts: 409 Location: Hamilton, Ontario

Are you adding any mash salts to your mash? What is your water profile to begin with? I generally use Kal's recommendation for an IPA profile as this is the style of beer my wife and I enjoy. If you check the recipe section, you will see it in Kal's recipes. So, I'm starting out with 100% RO water, as I wanted a clean slate to work with. I use EZ Water Calculator, plug in my grains, water volumes and salts for the profile I am aiming for. As this is 100% RO, I split the salts for mash and sparge. The last batch ( 21 gallons into the fermentor ) the mash ph was 5.29 and the sparge water was 5.6, with no lactic acid additions. EZ Water said I needed 7 mls but I always check the Ph prior to adding any acid and the Ph where I needed it. Ph of the sparge only needs to be ~6.

perogi · Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:04 am Post subject:

What's the hardness of your water? That can affect the ability of the grains to reach ideal ph.

randbrewer1010 · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 110

Our water is not too hard. The water chemistry is unknown to me. Our water reports don't include the trace minerals, just stuff like chlorine content, etc. It is generally decent lake water. It doesn't have a chance to pick up too many minerals before reaching my house. We don't have water hardness problems here. The pH was 7.8.

I am generally able to hit a good 5.2-5.4 mash pH depending on my specialty grains, so I never thought about it since I was batch sparging and tannin extraction is just not something you worry about Smile

This is my first brew on the new system, though, and this sparging technique runs a much higher risk of tanning extraction so I am worried about tannins. Based on what I have been reading I really need to get the sparge pH down to 6. If there isn't enough buffer in the mash when I start sparging, my high-ish pH water is going to go too alkaline and I run the risk of tannin extraction at the end of my sparge.

According to LHBS guy our water is relatively low on Calcium so I have generally used Burton water salts on my pale ales with good results (no noticeable mineral tastes), good mash pH.

I will just go back and get the lactic acid. Honestly, I am a little annoyed at LHBS guy for not listening to me and lecturing me on efficiency. He was admonishing people who try to go too high on efficiency and just ruin the beer and there is no point in going past 80% efficiency when home brewing, yada, yada... (I have heard that soooo many times now). I didn't build this system just to make beer or I would have stuck with my previous setup. I did this because I want total control and the ability to be efficient if I want to. I think I am ranting now. Anyhow, there you go on my situation Smile

Ultimately, I will get a RO system and start from scratch on my water (another thing LHBS guy told me wasn't worth the time..., but I know if you measure it and proceed with due technical respect for the process it is another aspect of it you can control). I know our water is generally fine the way I have been using it though Smile

Ben58 · Joined: 14 Aug 2011 Posts: 409 Location: Hamilton, Ontario

Lactic acid in small quantities is undetectable to the taste. That being said, can you try an experiment with your HLT? Put in your normal amount of water and add the lactic acid, bringing your Ph into line of where you want it, then cool a sample and taste it. The taste should have a touch of tart, nothing else. Also, what Ph meter are you using and what temperature you are measuring at.

randbrewer1010 · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 110

**kal** · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject:

randbrewer1010 · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 110

**kal** · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject:

Yup. Don't get be wrong however: I do like the fact that I get high efficiency. It's great: A sack of grain goes almost 50% farther than what some other home brewers are getting. That does add up over time.

Kal

randbrewer1010 · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 110

**kal** · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:43 am Post subject:

One more benefit to keep in mind about higher efficiency is that you can brew higher gravity beers without needing a larger mash tun. This is something that is often overlooked.

Brew beer at an "average" efficiency? You'll need a mash tun that's 50% larger to accomodate higher gravity beers.

Kal

Jaspass · Joined: 12 Jun 2012 Posts: 52 Location: Chicago, IL

For what it is worth, I have water about 7.8 out of tap too. However after adding brewers salts, based on my water analysis, at the start of mash I am generally down to 5.8, so it doesn't take much lactic acid to dial it in from there.

A funny side effect of having an Electric Brewery as designed by Kal, is that once you show your LHBS a picture of your brewery, they generally stop questioning you. Smile

Jaspass · Joined: 12 Jun 2012 Posts: 52 Location: Chicago, IL

Sorry about last post, just realized we were talking sparge and not mash. I do find I have to add a bit more lactic acid to my sparge water, maybe around 4ml, but I have not noticed it in the taste of my beer.

**kal** · Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:02 am Post subject:

Shouldn't be an issue. You need about 1-2ml per gallon of 88% lactic before it even becomes something you can taste. So using using 4 ml in a large (10 gallon?) batch won't even be noticeable.

Kal

randbrewer1010 · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 110