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FAQ: Adapting for a 30 gallon/1 bbl (or larger) setup
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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TheSyndicateBrew wrote:
When adding the stainless coil to the HLT, should you increase the standard 50' length to say, 100' to account for the increased volume in the mash or should the 50' of tubing be enough surface area for proper heat transfer? I just want to make sure that when mashing out that we will have sufficient surface area in the HLT to raise the temp of the wort in a decent amount of time.

50 feet is more than adequate. It's already possibly slight overkill for the setup I use (20 gallon kettles).

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheSyndicateBrew



Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Pa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
TheSyndicateBrew wrote:
When adding the stainless coil to the HLT, should you increase the standard 50' length to say, 100' to account for the increased volume in the mash or should the 50' of tubing be enough surface area for proper heat transfer? I just want to make sure that when mashing out that we will have sufficient surface area in the HLT to raise the temp of the wort in a decent amount of time.

50 feet is more than adequate. It's already possibly slight overkill for the setup I use (20 gallon kettles).

Kal



Thanks Kal, much appreciated!
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Kenny



Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Philadelphia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used my system twice so far- The coil transferred heat perfectly the first time. The second time was a little trickier due to a stuck mash tun and opaque hoses but based on my limited experience I would agree with Kal and say the 50' is definitely enough
So where in Pa are you from?
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: Someone just asked if the doubled up elements are wired in series or parallel but seems to have erased their post now. Wink Here's my response anyway:

Parallel. See the first post in this thread for more details. It says:

Quote:
Add two extra NEMA L6-30 (250VAC/30A) twist lock electrical female receptacles to the bottom for the two extra elements. The extra outlets would be wired in parallel (not series) with existing ones to give the same 240V drop across each element. Each receptacle would pull 4500W of power for a total of 9000W per kettle. I like the idea of just doubling up elements and keeping how theyíre connected to the kettle and control panel exactly the same as it would be easier and also cheaper, you simply have two 10 ga cords going to each kettle instead of one. The other option is to upgrade the receptacles to 50A versions and fatter 6 ga wire which goes into one outlet box to power one element and then splits off with 10 ga wire into a second outlet box to power the other element. This is likely messier, harder wiring, more connection points around the kettle. Also requires more of a redesign with different wiring of course, something that isnít documented. If we stick with whatís already documented on my site itís dead simple as people can just follow existing instructions. You just do 4 elements instead of 2. Easy.


Kal

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Last edited by kal on Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ohararp



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 29



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, of course I double checked after my post. Just deleted. Thanks for the quick response though!
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TheSyndicateBrew



Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Pa


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenny wrote:
I've used my system twice so far- The coil transferred heat perfectly the first time. The second time was a little trickier due to a stuck mash tun and opaque hoses but based on my limited experience I would agree with Kal and say the 50' is definitely enough
So where in Pa are you from?


I'm from the York county area.
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Kenny



Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Philadelphia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. Im about 1.5-2 hours from there. Good luck with your build
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WAKeele



Joined: 17 Dec 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Missoula, MT


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would one be able to run a 50A box for a 30A system to allow for room to expand down the road?
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WAK
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WAKeele wrote:
Would one be able to run a 50A box for a 30A system to allow for room to expand down the road?

Yes. Most definitely. On the 50 amp control panel you have 4 heating element receptacles on the bottom instead of 2 to allow for 2 heating elements per kettle.

There's no reason why you couldn't only use 2 of them for now, in something like 20 gallon kettles (for example). There would be one in each kettle just like my setup.

Then later down the road when you want to upgrade to (say) 55 gallon kettles, you would install 2 elements per kettle and plug them in.

The system would look, feel, and behave identically. Just more power per kettle (9000W instead of 5500W).

We're currently working on building a couple of 50 amp control panels for customers and plan on having them up for sale some time in (hopefully) early 2012.

Kal

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WAKeele



Joined: 17 Dec 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Missoula, MT


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent! I was thinking there shouldn't be anything keeping me from doing that, but wanted to make sure. I'll take one then! Wink (I'll be sending an email shortly)
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WAK
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WAKeele wrote:
Excellent! I was thinking there shouldn't be anything keeping me from doing that, but wanted to make sure. I'll take one then! Wink (I'll be sending an email shortly)

Yup. It's more cost however of course. Parts get more expensive as you move up in amperage. At 50 amps things are still somewhat standardized. Above that there are basically no standards when it comes to plugs/connectors so things get very expensive very fast if the intent is to keep the design the same.

If you never expect to brew more than (say) 20 gallons at once then there's no reason to go with a 50 amp control panel/power cord/outlet as they do cost more.

Kal

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pbrink231



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Bloomfield, CT


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering if its possible to run 2x 30Amp outlets and have the box work off that. Since your ending up using 4 elements couldnt you just add the extra inlet to run the other two. The box would need to be increased of course to add the other elements but this way you could easily expand when the time is right to increase an extra two 5500W heating elements.

I was looking into this way so that I could have both the HLT and the Boil tank run at the same time for now and 2 at the same time in one tank later when I get larger tanks.
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WAKeele



Joined: 17 Dec 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Missoula, MT


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, this reminds me of something I was thinking about before I got derailed by life. Would it be easy to rig a four element system where you could individually control each element so you could have any two elements running at a time? Something that could allow for using say two Boil elements to bring to a boil, then switch to one to maintain and bring up one in the HLT.
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WAK
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything is possible if you redesign it to accomodate. I wouldn't do it myself as running multiple separate circuits into one box seems a bit of an odd thing to do and could pose some safety issues/concerns if wires were to cross or have problems. I'l probably feel better wiring a panel directly into a dedicated 60 amp circuit.

Kal

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Rcwilbert



Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody with a 1 bbl have heat times they would like to share using this setup? Mostly looking for someone that uses the 2 4500W elements.
Thanks,
Rick
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick: 9000W will raise the temp by approximately 2 degrees F per minute in 1 bbl of of water. You can use that to do your calculations.

Kal

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aproveau@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Hole placement Reply with quote

Any information regarding the placement (how far from the bottom) the two heating element holes and the HERMS coil are for a 55 gallon Blichmann BoilerMaker kettle?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject: Re: Hole placement Reply with quote

aproveau@gmail.com wrote:
Any information regarding the placement (how far from the bottom) the two heating element holes and the HERMS coil are for a 55 gallon Blichmann BoilerMaker kettle?

I've never used one myself, so sorry, no. Just make sure you have enough room for the electrical box on the outside. Once they're in, do the same for the HERMS coil. Positioning is not critical.

KAl

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aproveau@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Hole placement Reply with quote

Thanxs Kal!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10196
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Cali Common, Maibock, Helles, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Weizen


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added some pictures to the first post in this thread. We hope to have these 50A panels available for order later this summer.

Quote:
Pictures

From the front the 50A panel appears just like the regular 30 amp panel:



Below are two extra heating element receptacles and a beefier 50A power input receptacle:



On the inside most of the 30A wiring and components are upgraded to 50A and extra fuses are added to protect the 30A wiring:



Kal

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