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Does the temp probe location matter?

 
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crypt0



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 6



PostLink    Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Does the temp probe location matter? Reply with quote


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I noticed Kal has his probes installed on the output of his valves for his HLT and MT. I was considering mounting my probes directly in vessles, but I'm curious if there are any advantages to mounting to the output of the kettle?

Thanks
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perogi



Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 819
Location: NH

Drinking: Perogi Pale, NEIPA, Nutter's Crossing Nut Brown Ale, What the helles a kolsch?

Working on: More Perogi Pale, Edmund Fitzgerald Porter Clone


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One less hole in your kettle comes to mind Smile
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want to be able to take the temperatures of the water and wort as it flows. If you just stick it in the kettle you will only get a stratified temperature, in your mash if you don't have good flow you will get a miss reading of temperature and miss your target temperatures. It also helps you notice if your having flow problems with pumps of a stuck sparge by displaying temperature swings. Remember this system is designed to control the process/temperatures. This is a very important placement of the probes and should not be minimized. Keep them in the flow.

Castermmt
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crypt0



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 6



PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Castermmt, and drilling less holes should not be overlooked perogi Smile

I think you've sold me on mounting them on the outputs. I have massive temperature probes for my system, so I think I'll buy a cross fitting and mount it horizontally just before the bulkhead.
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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its always better to ask then to regret! Mug
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Castermmt wrote:
You want to be able to take the temperatures of the water and wort as it flows. If you just stick it in the kettle you will only get a stratified temperature, in your mash if you don't have good flow you will get a miss reading of temperature and miss your target temperatures. Remember this system is designed to control the process/temperatures. This is a very important placement of the probes and should not be minimized. Keep them in the flow.

+1. This is the exact reason. In closed loop control systems like this you want to measure in the flow, not in holding tanks.

Kal

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crypt0



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 6



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along the same lines, I noticed Kal has installed his probe downstream of the ballvalve, meaning you cannot get any temparture reading without running the water/wort. I was considering mounting the temp probe ahead of the valve so you would get a reading even if your valve is closed.

Is this along the same line of thinking as measuring the temparture in the flow? Does it matter? Am I overthinking this?

Thanks again
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kal
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Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Water needs to be flowing for accurate reading, so it doesn't matter if you put it before or after as when the valve is closed, the reading will not be accurate.

I put it after as that makes the valve handle stick out less.

Kal

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Castermmt



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 864
Location: Lowell, In

Drinking: Steelhead Porter, Alt-Toids, Hefty-Weizen, Terry's Kolsch, African Amber, Pumpkin Ale, Double Dog Ale

Working on: Janet's Brown Ale, Terry's Kolsch, Pilsner


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Water needs to be flowing for accurate reading, so it doesn't matter if you put it before or after as when the valve is closed, the reading will not be accurate.

I put it after as that makes the valve handle stick out less.

Kal

+1 on must have flow.

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foomench



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
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Drinking: Pinot barrel aged quad

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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you ask this question on another board, you will get a great variety of answers. As designed for Kal's system and process, the probes should be where they are. I do not use a 100% Kal system, nor do I follow his process 100%. I follow this board because most people around here know a lot, and I am an electric brewer with a HERMS. My probes are in the vessels. My process is different. I have a motor for a stirrer for my HLT, but I haven't installed it yet. Right now I manually stir it periodically when the HERMS coil is being used, and that seems to be working well enough for me.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 9676
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: German Lager, Electric Hop Candy Jr, Scottish 70/-, Janet's Brown, Maibock, Kolsch, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: West Coast Blaster (American Red IPA)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. That works too. You basically need to keep the liquid in motion to avoid stratification, and it also helps greatly with heat transfer in the HERMS coils (as far as the HLT is concerned).

That's why my HLT is continously pumped out the bottom and back into the top. That could be replaced with a motorized stirring mechanism - some people do stirrers through the lid. Looks like an auger. Here's an example:





Link: http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/Carl%27s-Electric-HLT

I considered this early on but I prefer the pump idea as then I don't have to attach a motor to the kettle lid which in my setup would just get in the way when you want to remove the lid. I think things to be somewhat permanently attached and out of the way. I needed 2 pumps anyway for sparging so the choice (for my setup) became more obvious.

Every setup's different of course. YMMV!

Kal

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