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Wiring NEMA L6-30 & L6-20 Receptacles
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electric puha



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Wiring NEMA L6-30 & L6-20 Receptacles Reply with quote


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I feel stupid for asking, but I'm going to start wiring my receptacles tomorrow and note that they have 'Y', 'G' and 'X'. I get that 'Y' is hot as is 'X' and that 'G' is ground. My question is what do I use for the Neutral to attach to the Neutral bus. Apologies for a stupid question.

Cheers
Andrew
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Ben58



Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 336
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the heating elements, there is no neutral involved, and no such a thing as dumb questions.
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electric puha



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ben. I neglected to mention that I'm using 240v and only 3 pronged plugs/receptacles. I actually meant the neutral on the power in receptacle. According to Kal's directions "In some cases orientation is extremely important: For example, The 14 gauge neutral wire must connect to the "W" (NEUTRAL) screw on the 30A/240V power in receptacle while the larger 10 gauge black wire must connect to the "Y" (HOT A) screw."

I don't have a 'W' on my plug (L6-30 250v) only a Y, X and G. Do I use the X as a neutral (to the neutral bus).

I also note that the pump receptacles have a 'W' (Neutral) connection http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=10. None of my receptacles have a 'W'. I can't proceed any further with the build until I can resolve this problem.

Cheers
Andrew
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Ben58



Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 336
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For your pumps, use the Y terminal for your neutral. As for the power in, there is a method of wiring a three wire system that utilizes the neutral wire as ground as well. I don't know the answer as to how it is wired though.
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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 136
Location: Horsham, West Sussex

Drinking: Brewdog AB16

Working on: Old Flatulent Stout, Galaxy Pale ale


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew....

I too am building a 3 wire 240v system.

All of my receptacles only have X, Y or G. There are no Ws on them at all..they are all 3 wire receptacles.

In UK terms and possibly the same in NZ I believe the X is Live (corresponds to brown here), Y is Neutral (blue) and G is Ground (green).

The USA colours are Live = Black, Neutral = White and Ground = Green I think.

That is how I've wired my power cable. Maybe one of the USA members can confirm?...I'd like to not to fry my CP the first time I power up!

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Ben58



Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 336
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed My bad, I just realized that you are in NZ. I definately am not familiar with your power source other than knowing it's 240V on a standard circuit.
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electric puha



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a problem Ben. Thanks for your time and input anyway.

Fatbaldingoldgit, I think you're correct re the wiring, but I would like it clarified. Like you, I don't really want to fry my Control Panel. If anyone else has experience with this, then any comments/suggestions would be gratefully received.

Cheers
Andrew
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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 136
Location: Horsham, West Sussex

Drinking: Brewdog AB16

Working on: Old Flatulent Stout, Galaxy Pale ale


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew / Ben,

...and to complicate matters further...Kal's instructions sometimes refer to HOT A and HOT B...see page 241..

"We use different coloured wire to identify the type of voltage or signal carried. We tried as much as possible to follow these standards:
Black: HOT A line
Red: HOT B line
White: NEUTRAL line
Green: GROUND
Any other colour: DC or low voltage signals"

In the UK we have only 3 wires...everything is 240v...I am assuming that wherever a Hot connection is required it doesn't matter for us it will always be Black = X.

However, where I am confused is that on page 246 where Kal describes how to wire the power receptacle

White Neutral cable (shown as blue) from the Neutral bus goes to connector W on the power receptacle. I don't have a W, only X, Y and G

The black Hot wire goes from terminal 1 on the Power in Relay to connector Y on the power receptacle.

If I only have X, Y and G should Y be connected to the Neutral bus and X connected to terminal 1 on the power in relay?

..getting more and more confused...Kal...Help....!

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electric puha



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or do we use a jumper on the relay and use 'Y' as the neutral? Surely someone has built the CP using 240v 3 pin plug/receptacles. I'd hate to think I'll be spending $8k (+ shed, etc) for nothing or to fry the CP. I may have overlooked something of course? That said, my kettles do look rather cool.
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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 4057
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Amber Ale, New Zealand IPA, Electric Pale Ale, Russian Imperial Stout, American Lager, Weizen, Irish Stout

Working on: Cream Ale, Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In NZ and the UK you don't have 2 HOT lines (you only have 1) so your power input receptacle will only have 3 spades on it instead of 4.

In North America with 4 spades we wire as follows:

G = GROUND
W = NEUTRAL
Y = HOT A
X = HOT B

You're missing one of the two HOT lines and have X, Y, G connectors on the L6-30 (3 spade instead of 4) power input receptacle.

It doesn't matter if you chose X or Y to be your HOT on the L6-30 plug. Just be consistent and make sure it lines up with how you wired your power cord all the way back to the wall socket. I'm not sure how a 30 amp / 240V socket is labelled or wired in NZ or the UK.

So you could do (for example):

G = GROUND (EARTH)
Y = HOT (LIVE/ACTIVE)
X = NEUTRAL

You cannot use my wiring diagrams directly to wire up a 240V only setup by only changing wire colours. Assumptions are dangerous.

Having no 120V (only 240V) means that all current to the elements flows through both the HOT and NEUTRAL lines. This is different from a North American 240V setup where the current to the elements only flows through the two HOTs (and never touches NEUTRAL). So the wiring will be different.

While there will be a 14 gauge blue NEUTRAL line going from the power input receptacle to the NEUTRAL bus to power all of the low current devices (lights/switches/PIDs/timer/buzzer/etc) you're also going to have a fatter 10 gauge blue NEUTRAL wire going from the power input receptacle to the POWER IN RELAY which replaces the 10 gauge HOT B wire shown in the heating element wiring diagram.

Do you have someone local to you that can assist and look over your wiring before you power it up? That's sometimes the best option. I'd hate to see someoen fry something or hurt themselves.

Kal

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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 136
Location: Horsham, West Sussex

Drinking: Brewdog AB16

Working on: Old Flatulent Stout, Galaxy Pale ale


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

Thanks for this..In the UK all plugs and sockets are wired using an earth symbol for Ground, L = Live and N = Neutral. The voltage differential is between Live at +240v and Neutral which is at 0v.

The colour codes are different, of course, as they are everywhere.

I guess what would be useful to translate from your diagram to the UK wiring is to understand which of your components are 120v and which 240v and how do you arrive at 240v..Is it by connecting the component between the 2 hot wires X and Y?..and how do you get 120v?

Then it's a simple? job to translate to UK standard which is always to connect the component between Hot/Live and Neutral.

If that makes sense?

..and I don't know of anyone local who has the expertise to check my wiring but...I will check..

.../David

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Amber Ale, New Zealand IPA, Electric Pale Ale, Russian Imperial Stout, American Lager, Weizen, Irish Stout

Working on: Cream Ale, Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fatbaldingoldgit wrote:
I guess what would be useful to translate from your diagram to the UK wiring is to understand which of your components are 120v and which 240v and how do you arrive at 240v..Is it by connecting the component between the 2 hot wires X and Y?..and how do you get 120v?


In my diagrams anything that is connected between HOT and NEUTRAL get 120V while anything connected between the two HOTs get 240V.

The only things that get 240V in my diagrams are the the yellow lights and the heating element receptacles.

Some of the parts can be powered by either 120 or 240V. This includes the PIDs and the timer.

The 120V lights, the buzzer and the doorbell transformers in my build are powered by 120V. If in a 240V country these need to be replaced by 240V versions.

The relays in my build are powered by a 120V coil. If in a 240V country these need to be replaced by 240V versions.

The NEMA L5-15 pump receptacles as documented in my build only support 120VAC. These need to be replaced with L6-15 receptacles that support 250VAC.

Quote:
Then it's a simple? job to translate to UK standard which is always to connect the component between Hot/Live and Neutral.

Just make sure to have two sets of NEUTRAL wiring: The heating elements use high current and need 10 ga wire. This high current NEUTRAL wiring replaces the red HOT wires. The rest runs off between the HOT/NEUTRAL bus using lowerer current 14 ga wiring.


Kal

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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 136
Location: Horsham, West Sussex

Drinking: Brewdog AB16

Working on: Old Flatulent Stout, Galaxy Pale ale


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

That helps..thanks...

"In my diagrams anything that is connected between HOT and NEUTRAL get 120V while anything connected between the two HOTs get 240V."

So....your hot/neutral connection giving 120v translates to the same in UK terms except that we get = 240v

and also your hot A (Y) / hot B (X) connection must translate to the same, because in the UK we don't have two hots..

so surely that means that your hot A (Y) = our Live

and your hot B AND Neutral is equivalent to our Neutral


"Just make sure to have two sets of NEUTRAL wiring: The heating elements use high current and need 10 ga wire. This high current NEUTRAL wiring replaces the red HOT wires. The rest runs off between the HOT/NEUTRAL bus using lowerer current 14 ga wiring."

I was about to respond - Surely in a 240v system there is no concept nor any possibility of 2 sets of Neutral wiring..as it's all 240v then all wiring will need to be 10 ga wire.

However, I think what you are saying is that the wire gauge for the heating elements needs to be 10 ga because it is high current - 23a. everything else can use 14 ga.


Is that right?


..../David

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kal
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Drinking: Amber Ale, New Zealand IPA, Electric Pale Ale, Russian Imperial Stout, American Lager, Weizen, Irish Stout

Working on: Cream Ale, Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fatbaldingoldgit wrote:
"In my diagrams anything that is connected between HOT and NEUTRAL get 120V while anything connected between the two HOTs get 240V."

So....your hot/neutral connection giving 120v translates to the same in UK terms except that we get = 240v

Correct. That's why you can't have any 120V things in a control panel built for a location that does not have 120V power.

Quote:
so surely that means that your hot A (Y) = our Live

Correct. In your case you only have: HOT, NEUTRAL, GROUND. The potential between your HOT and NEUTRAL gives you 240V.

Quote:
and your hot B AND Neutral is equivalent to our Neutral

I wouldn't call a North American HOT B the same as your NEUTRAL. That is misleading and may make something think that you always wire a HOT B in any device to NEUTRAL instead. That isn't necessarily going to be true.

You can't look at 1:1 mapping. Your NEUTRAL is the same as a North American NEUTRAL. The difference is that your HOT is at 240V our a North American HOT is at 120V.


Quote:
"Just make sure to have two sets of NEUTRAL wiring: The heating elements use high current and need 10 ga wire. This high current NEUTRAL wiring replaces the red HOT wires. The rest runs off between the HOT/NEUTRAL bus using lowerer current 14 ga wiring."

I was about to respond - Surely in a 240v system there is no concept nor any possibility of 2 sets of Neutral wiring..as it's all 240v then all wiring will need to be 10 ga wire.

There are not two NEUTRALs, there are two paths that NEUTRAL current can take. One leads through the heating elements and therefore requires 10 ga wire since it draws up to about 23 amps. The other leads through all the low current devices through the 7A fuse and NEUTRAL BUS. This is wired with 14 ga wire since the current is less.

Quote:
However, I think what you are saying is that the wire gauge for the heating elements needs to be 10 ga because it is high current - 23a. everything else can use 14 ga.

Correct.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 4057
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Amber Ale, New Zealand IPA, Electric Pale Ale, Russian Imperial Stout, American Lager, Weizen, Irish Stout

Working on: Cream Ale, Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll see if I can spend some time tonight modifying the diagram(s) to show what needs to be done guys. That would be a lot simpler.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 4057
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Amber Ale, New Zealand IPA, Electric Pale Ale, Russian Imperial Stout, American Lager, Weizen, Irish Stout

Working on: Cream Ale, Kolsch


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok guys, I spent the afternoon putting together these instructions:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25393

Hope it helps!

Kal

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electric puha



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks heaps Kal for your time. Your input is most helpful.
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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
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Location: Horsham, West Sussex

Drinking: Brewdog AB16

Working on: Old Flatulent Stout, Galaxy Pale ale


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second that...without you Kal, we would not have even got this far....many thanks for spending the time working through this with us...your help, as always, is very much appreciated...

...../David

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Fatbaldingoldgit



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 136
Location: Horsham, West Sussex

Drinking: Brewdog AB16

Working on: Old Flatulent Stout, Galaxy Pale ale


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electric Puha..

Following Kal's brilliant write up for 240v 3 wire systems I compiled the following chart for my own use just to remind me how I decided to cable up my own CP.

USA power cable L6 receptacle connector 3 cable Function UK standard
Black Y Live Brown (L)
White X Neutral Blue (N)
Green G Earth / Ground Green (||-) <-- I can't do the earth symbol!

The USA power cable colours are the colours of the 3 wires in the power cable supplied by Spike. The UK Standard colours are those we use in the UK right now, they changed a couple of years ago, and I've mapped them to the X,Y and G L6 receptacle connectors and the power cable.

Of course, all countries are different, but I've clarified what the function of the wires are in the UK 3 wire 240v system.

You may decide to map them differently.....I believe in trying to simplify things as far as possible coz that's the kind of guy I am, simple..

Together with Kal's write up I now feel that I know what I am doing..which is dangerous in itself!

.../David

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electric puha



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi David

Yes, I like the idea of standardising the 3 pin 240v setup. I've wired my receptacles and plugs as you've noted. It fits with Kal's wiring: make it repeatable and the same each time.

Good luck with your build and help, David.

Cheers
Andrew
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