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SS nipples

 
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littledog




Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:41 pm    Post subject: SS nipples Reply with quote


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Has anyone had a problem fitting a valve, one lock nut, two shims, an O-ring and a compression fitting on the 1" long close nipple as shown on the Electric Brewery web site? Not enough threads left to make a tight fit.
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KES




Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 473
Location: Iowa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem here. Are you using the recommended parts on this site?
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littledog




Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes exactly. Here's the way I see it. It takes about 1/2" of nipple thread to get a good seat on the valve and the same for the compression fitting, now add to that 5/15 for the lock nut and 3/16 for two shims (not counting the O-ring) and your at 1 1/2" add to that another 5/16 for the keg wall. You also loose a little space in the middle of the nipple. Bottom line, very loose valve and fitting connections. I guess lots of teflon tape and a big wrench you could stop leaks but that's not what I envisioned from the web site. So where am I wrong?

Thanks anyway for the comeback.
Al
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KES




Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 473
Location: Iowa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you using a keg, or a kettle? If a keg, I have no experience with those. And yes, the teflon tape helps take up any slack.
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littledog




Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using a keg but the wall thickness difference is not an issue considering the loose fit of the parts. A longer nipple is not a solution because the thread depth is the same on all nipples. I tried to cut deeper threads on a longer nipple and broke my die..so much for that. I guess it's lots of tape but I'm disappionted in the system.
I'm building this for a neighbor friend who does not want to go to welded fittings, I have all SS welded on my system and would go no other way, when you put over $2K in a system welding is a small cost for good construction...personal opinion.

Thanks again.

Al
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10804
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Wit, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al,

Is it the HERMS valves you're talking about? These ones here?:



Link to instructions: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/hot-liquor-tank?page=4

There's nothing lose fitting with the setup I use so something in what you're doing has to be different than what I did. What you're experiencing is not normal so you can't compare it to welded fittings. Blichmann themselves use the same weldless principle I do to create extremely strong seals - just as strong as welded.

If I push/pull on these valves on my setup hard enough the kettle wall bends a bit because the fit is so tight. It's as if the valve is part of the kettle wall, like it was permanently welded on. No different from a welded fitting. When most people think weldless, they think of systems that do not use shims around the silicone o-ring so you don't have a tight fit such that pushing/pulling the ball valve makes the whole thing move as the o-ring flexes/compresses. That to me is unacceptable. In my design (and Blichmann's) it's stainless against stainless from one end to the another as if it was all one piece of steel permanently attached to the kettle wall

Grab on to the stock ball valve that comes with any Blichmann kettle and try and make it move or bend as hard you can. You can't. That's a weldless fitting that uses the same design principle as I do. All of the valves added to the kettles per my instructions should fit just as tightly. If they don't, something is not right.

KES wrote:
Are you using a keg, or a kettle? If a keg, I have no experience with those. And yes, the teflon tape helps take up any slack.

No! Please don't do that. You should not have to do this. If you do, something's not right. I did not use much teflon tape at all. Teflon tape's not meant to be part of the 'system' that holds the parts in place, it's only meant to create a seal. A few turns is all you need if even that.

Can you take a pictures of the parts? Something has to be different. Someone you ordered from may have sent you wrong parts. There has to be an explanation.

What you're seeing is not normal and should not be used to assess the system and make general comparisons of welded vs weldless. A poorly implemented weldless system will of course always be worse that a properly implemented welded seal. When both are done properly they should be equivalent.

Kal

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KES




Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 473
Location: Iowa


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I wasn't clear in my post. Embarassed I didn't mean that teflon tape is used as a fix to a problem, but only that it does have some effect on tightening up (sealing) the connection. Sorry, if I caused any confusion.
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littledog




Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kal for your continued interest. I look at the picture and see that the amount of nipple threads to the left (valve side) of the lock nut are exactly what I have, I guess my concern was are three or four threads enough to prevent leaks. Obviously if tighten enough the answer is yes. Since we have not put the system together yet I have no way of knowing if it would leak, you say no so I'll go on that.
Having said that we intend to have the valves on the HLT and kettle further away from the tanks because of direct fired heating. I will do this by using a 1/2" SS coupling in place of the lock nut and add a 3" nipple between the coupling and the valve. This also solves my concern because it gives me a full thread connection at that point. Sounds a little confusing, right? All other connections will be as shown in your pictures ie, the HERMS and any temperature probes and/or sight glasses used.
Thanks again, it was nice to have your help and support on this issue.

For better brewing,

Al
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Ben58




Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Hamilton, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al. Why not just go with a 1/2" x 3" nipple? Saves the coupling and 2 joints.
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littledog




Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then I get back to the original problem, not enough threads for a lock nut, two shims, kettle wall, O-ring and a fitting on the inside. I want more than 3 or 4 threads on anything connected inside or outside. I understand there is no pressure involved and a tight turn on the fitting will probably never leak but we all have our quirks. Full thread connections are mine. Everyone that has responded has indicated that there is no problem but the coupling method makes me feel better. Thanks for the interest and I appreciate your comment.

Little Dog Brewery home of the Dog Poop Porter. Can't understand why no one wants to try it.

Al
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 10804
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, London Pride, Wit, Janet's Brown, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter

Working on: Belgian Quad, Belgian IPA


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

littledog wrote:
Thanks Kal for your continued interest. I look at the picture and see that the amount of nipple threads to the left (valve side) of the lock nut are exactly what I have, I guess my concern was are three or four threads enough to prevent leaks.

I don't know if there are 3-4 threads. The part is on an angle in the picture and how far in I placed the nut on the thread isn't necessarily where it should go exactly. I bet once the nut is on that the threads on either side are more 50/50 so that the compression fitting inside and the valve on the outside get the same amount of threads.

Kal

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