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Burglar's big electric brew in a bag build (bbebiabb)

 
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:14 pm    Post subject: Burglar's big electric brew in a bag build (bbebiabb) Reply with quote


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Thanks so much Kal for putting together this awesome website. I don't think we would have tackled building our own electric brewery if it weren't for all the work you put into this site.

Intro: My wife and I have been extract brewing for about two years so far, and have really grown to enjoy it. One day we were huddled around a turkey fryer in the garage in the middle of winter, and decided it's time to come up with something better, and hey, trying this all grain stuff might be a good idea too. We have a very limited space in our basement that we can dedicate to brewing. We have decided to do an all-electric modified brew in a bag setup. Our local homebrew store calls it the Australian method. Not my idea, I actually ripped it off of another forum. Anyways, our project is going to be broken down to three phases:

Phase 1: eKettle build. We should be able to knock out 5 gallon extract batches just like we do now, but with the comfort and convenience of indoor electric brewing.

Phase 2: Move to all grain. Big step for us, small equipment step. We'll just need to add a bag and big paddle.

Phase 3: This is the "modified" part. I want to add a herms / mini-hlt, pump, and semi-sparge, assuming all grain is how we decide to go for sure.
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The core of our project is the Bayou Classic 25 gallon stainless pot with steamer basket. The basket will be perfect to lift out the grain instead of relying on the strength of the bag to hold together.



Why 25? Well, we tend to brew stupid large beers. According to our LHBS, 15 gal keggles would be cutting it pretty close for mashing 10 gallon batches of the stuff we normally do, 20 gal would be perfect. Bayou's 25 gallon pot actually has a smaller diameter than their 20 gallon, so we shouldn't be cutting it as close if we want to try and squeak in a 5 gallon batch.

At least that was my theory on ordering day. When it showed up, I was a little taken aback. This guy is huge!
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I went against Kal and used a super cheap step bit from Harbor Freight to drill our pot. I was so nervous I paced around for a good two hours before I did it. No need, it was a piece of cake!

I marked the spot, hit it with a screwdriver ( I don't have a punch,) and started right with the step bit. Per recommendation from one of our shop guys, LOW SPEED / HIGH FEED worked perfect! I let the bit go maybe 10rpm, hit it with cutting fluid, and pushed pretty darn hard. I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow our Greenlee punch kit from work too - except we didn't have the perfect size. I ended up using the 1 7/32" punch, and using the step bit to open it one more step. Result is that I have to turn the element to get it in - it's a little tight, but I think that's a good thing. Voila:



Brimming with confidence, I drilled another hole to install the super cool weldless sight glass I bought:



So far so good. More to come...
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rosenjm




Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 249
Location: Ballston Spa, NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lookin good! It is funny, I started out with the phase approach too. Build the BK first, continue to use my Igloo conversion MLT, slowly add parts...I hope you are able to stick with your plan better than I was Smile
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rosenjm wrote:
Lookin good! It is funny, I started out with the phase approach too. Build the BK first, continue to use my Igloo conversion MLT, slowly add parts...I hope you are able to stick with your plan better than I was Smile


Trust me, I'd do everything at once if I could!

I've already had to fix the moldy drywall down there, pull out the closet maid that was in the area we are going to use, spackle, prime, and paint, lay down vinyl tile, and reorganize the rest of the basement.

Before we'll be able to brew, I'm going to have to build the brew stand and shelving to hold all of our fermenters, chemicals, supplies, and bottles. Ugh, so much.
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tri_joel




Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Posts: 15
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be watching your progress, Burglar. I would like to build an electric BIAB also. I have a smaller version of the Bayou Classic, 44 quart. It works perfectly for 5 gal batches.
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress is slow, but not zero:

I ran into a minor issue with having the wrong size cord grip or hole on the gang box depending on how you look at it. Got the correct size and finished installing the element.



Put the nice pretty cover on and we're done!



Here's the element. It's a Camco Lime Life 02933.



I have it mounted as low as possible so that we can still get a 5 gallon extract batch in if we want to. At first, we'll siphon out, but I'll add a dip tube later on.

Again, thanks Kal. I put about 15 gallons of water in it and not a drop came out. Now on to building the control box!
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cardmechanic




Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Posts: 25
Location: Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple notes from my BiaB experience.

1) Build a pully hoist to pull the grain out. Especially since you brew primarily large grain bills. 15+lbs of wet grain is very very heavy and hot! The last thing you want to do is tip over a kettle.

2) With my 15.5 gal keggle I maxed out at about 18 lbs of grain. Beyond that capacity/volume became an issue.

3) This is debated a lot but you really want either a way to circulate the water through the grain or a method to sparge your grain. Otherwise your efficiency is really gonna suck and your gonna have very long boils. I found a restraunt grade collander that fit over the top of my keggle and I could rest the bag on the collander and pour pitchers through the grain.

4) When you make your bag taper it like a coffee filter \_/ and make sure its big enough that you can fit the kettle inside of the bag. Triple stitch the seams and add a draw string to hold it from falling back into the kettle.

Also a question:

How do you plan on bringing everything up to mashout temperature without having the bag near that heating element (read melting the bag)?

Hope this helps, I really liked BiaB and cleanup is amazingly simple.
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cardmechanic wrote:
Couple notes from my BiaB experience.

...

Hope this helps, I really liked BiaB and cleanup is amazingly simple.


Thanks for the tips!

1. Moving the grains is one of our biggest concerns. Our best plan right now is to use a hand winch from harbor freight.

2. Our LHBS recommended for the styles of beer that we brew that we go bigger than 15gal, so we're basing our system on a 25gal pot. It looks way, way too big, but I'm listening.

3. As an upgrade once we get the eKettle running, I'm planning on building a recirc setup that also can provide sparge-on-demand water. I have what I think is a pretty slick idea.

4. I'm going to make a bag, but it's going to be open top. It's going to be closer to a liner for the steamer basket in the stock photo of my first post. I'll let the basket handle all the structural load, and let the bag do the filtering. That will also solve the problem of the bag resting on the element.

I "borrowed" this idea from here . The original concept drawings have been removed from the first post, but here is my kindergartner style drawing:
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress:

Free project box score. Slightly smaller than Kal's, I'll have to pull a trick or two to make everything fit. The switches and lights I got for peanuts too, although I don't have a three position switch for the element select.

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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's why we are doing BIAB - our brew area is tiny! I would have backed up to take better pictures, but I was against the furnace!

A $25 Home Depot trip today and now we have a brew stand. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it's only 16" off the ground. Very low profile. Even so, we're going to have to come up with a low profile winch system for pulling the basket out of that pot, I think we only are going to have about 12" to play with.


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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long time no update. Progress is, uh, progressing.



You can really tell here just how small our available brew area is. That's where the panel will live eventually...



And why there hasn't been much progress. My buddy wanted to pitch in, so I asked him to make a heat sink mounting plate for me. He does great work in everything, but he's also very particular. So, he welded plugs in all the old holes, cut mounting spots for temp probes and outlets for me too. Did a bang up job.

The paint shop baked this crinkle black finish on in one day for me:



And everything mounted:



Having a wiring party tomorrow. Wish us luck, as we've veered way off course from a Kal carbon copy.
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pola0502ds




Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Location: poland, Ohio


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did you use to cut out your volt and amp meters, they look very clean.
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pola0502ds wrote:
What did you use to cut out your volt and amp meters, they look very clean.


I gave a guy that works in our machine shop a sixer of beer.
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Success! Great Success!

Had two buddies over last Friday - fed them beer and we tackled about 90% of the wiring - without the use of the instructions on the website. I wanted to make sure we understood everything we were doing and why. I finished up a few more bits today, enough to give it a test run.

Boiled five gallons of water today - functionality check only. Never in my life would I think that watching water boil could be exciting.

Still not wired: Alarms, pilot lights.
Not programmed: Timer.

No breaker trip, nobody got electrocuted. Hood fan seemed to keep up pretty well, too.

Issues:
I have a very small leak from my temp probe mount, and the temp seems to read 10° low (boil was at ~202°)

We will be brewing on this system in no time! Thanks Kal, I never would have attempted this without your site.






When I get the last bits wired and my zip ties cinched down, I'll take a money shot. I think I did a few thing differently than Kal. Most notably, I didn't want to deal with those doorbell transformers. So, I didn't. Wink
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burglar wrote:
Boiled five gallons of water today - functionality check only. Never in my life would I think that watching water boil could be exciting.

Ha! This comment made me laugh out loud because I had the same feeling elation a few years back when I tested out my panel with my first pot with an element attached. Only half the control panel was wired up. I wanted to make sure the element attachment I had concocted worked as expected.

I had done so much thinking about "why" it should work that I was pretty confident about it but actually having it work as expected without any leaks with a huge relief.

Yup. Boiling water can be exciting. Wink

Kal

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My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Money shot! Go easy on me, as we're no wiring expers. Plus, we ran out of several colors part way though, and were drinking enough that it seemed a good idea to keep going anyways. Any troubleshooting later is going to be tough. But it worked first try!

I'm still looking for 220v bayonet base bulbs for my pilot lights that are reasonably priced, the last thing to wire.



My voltmeter is self powered, only two wires to hook up. My ammeter is inductive, you can only see part of the green / beige coil on the bottom right of the box. No shunt, no contact, like an amp clamp. I just passed one hot leg through. It does require 9v DC power. Initially, I had it powered with a 9v battery, but then I noticed the Auber timer has a 9vdc output for prox sensors. Perfect! No doorbell transformers, no adjusting, and a lot less real estate used.

My secondhand box had no back plate, so I bought a piece of plexi and some standoffs.

I have a 6A fuse on the bottom of the fuse bank before the hot bus, and individual 1A fuses for the two boxes. Space already mapped out for a future upgrade to a 2nd PID, SSR, Outlet, 2 more temp probe ins, and contactor.



I haven't decided if I'm going to juice up the RTD cable yet. I have quick disconnects on both sides, so chances of it getting pulled on are slim.

Phase 1 I'm going to call complete.

Again, thanks to everyone on this forum for being all the inspiration we needed to get out of a cold garage and start brewing electric.

Kal, you are The Godfather, and I would kiss your ring if you were to deem me worthy.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 11116
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Drinking: Pub Ale, Electric Creamsicle, Mild, Pliny the Younger, Belgian Dark Strong, Weizen, Russian Imperial Stout, Black Butte Porter


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burglar wrote:
Kal, you are The Godfather, and I would kiss your ring if you were to deem me worthy.

No kissing please. I'll have one of your homebrews however if that's ok however! ... (speaking of which, my glass is empty... BRB!)

Kal

_________________
Our new shop with over 150 new products: shop.TheElectricBrewery.com
We ship worldwide and support our products and customers for life.
Purchasing through our affiliate links helps support our site at no extra cost to you. We thank you!
My basement/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Burglar




Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Detroit


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:

No kissing please. I'll have one of your homebrews however if that's ok however! ... (speaking of which, my glass is empty... BRB!)

Kal


Think I could sneak some by the border guards? Mug
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